Why would Ford build anything the buyer wants?
#422
05-10-2012, 12:30 PM
[QUOTE=dkf;6885573]
I sell Fords for a living so I'm putting my bias up front.. BUT, Car and Honda (Car and Driver) TRIED to get an Explorer to turn over. They rigged up a tire so they could blow it on command, put the big roll over thingy rigs on the side so the car would survive, put a professional driver in a fire suit and VIOLA, they couldn't get one to roll over. They tried it at speeds from 15 mph all the way to 70 mph and moved the special "blow out wheel" to all four locations on the vehicle but couldn't get it to happen. Just take your foot off the gas, brake gingerly to normally and pull over.
Why are Ford Explorers Crashing? - Column - Car Reviews - Car and Driver
The Firestone debacle was because people were to lazy to check the tire pressure. And to stupid to know how a tall 4X4 vehicle drives. The warnings are posted on the visors and in the owners manual. quote]
I have two family members who had those so called killer Firestones on their vehciles for years one had them on 7 years (wasn't a high mileage driver) and the other had them on for 3 years. Through the recall they both got brand new tires to replace their firestones that they never had problems with. Run any tire low on air pressure in a hot climate at high speeds and it will probably blow in short order.
I have two family members who had those so called killer Firestones on their vehciles for years one had them on 7 years (wasn't a high mileage driver) and the other had them on for 3 years. Through the recall they both got brand new tires to replace their firestones that they never had problems with. Run any tire low on air pressure in a hot climate at high speeds and it will probably blow in short order.
Why are Ford Explorers Crashing? - Column - Car Reviews - Car and Driver
#423
05-10-2012, 01:21 PM
Firestone DID have bad tires out of their Decauter plant.
Ford's low pressure spec of 26psi gave little wiggle room on pressure.
Add to that overloading, excessive speed and, as the prior post points out, DRIVER ERROR, and there you have it.
As for the Ranger, I note $7000 discounts on '11 V6 models at the local dealer.
I think Ford should have saved the Ranger. What would it take? Ecoboost motors, a 6 speed auto or 6 speed manual. And a freshened up interior, maybe a little work on the exterior. A couple extra parts to bring the crash tests up maybe. 50,000 per year isn't worth selling?
Ford's low pressure spec of 26psi gave little wiggle room on pressure.
Add to that overloading, excessive speed and, as the prior post points out, DRIVER ERROR, and there you have it.
As for the Ranger, I note $7000 discounts on '11 V6 models at the local dealer.
I think Ford should have saved the Ranger. What would it take? Ecoboost motors, a 6 speed auto or 6 speed manual. And a freshened up interior, maybe a little work on the exterior. A couple extra parts to bring the crash tests up maybe. 50,000 per year isn't worth selling?
#424
05-10-2012, 05:15 PM
[QUOTE=RobErnst;11816327]
I sell Fords for a living so I'm putting my bias up front.. BUT, Car and Honda (Car and Driver) TRIED to get an Explorer to turn over. They rigged up a tire so they could blow it on command, put the big roll over thingy rigs on the side so the car would survive, put a professional driver in a fire suit and VIOLA, they couldn't get one to roll over. They tried it at speeds from 15 mph all the way to 70 mph and moved the special "blow out wheel" to all four locations on the vehicle but couldn't get it to happen. Just take your foot off the gas, brake gingerly to normally and pull over.
Why are Ford Explorers Crashing? - Column - Car Reviews - Car and Driver
firestone tire blowouts was caused by a tire that is underrated for the weight. due to some inter-office miscalculations, ford specd that firestone tire which was not adequate for the vehicles weight. Ford said to simply raise the tire pressure so it could handle the load (near tires maximum operating pressure), however most people neglected to run it at the 43 or so psi and kept it at 36, causing delamination of the tread from the belts.
I sell Fords for a living so I'm putting my bias up front.. BUT, Car and Honda (Car and Driver) TRIED to get an Explorer to turn over. They rigged up a tire so they could blow it on command, put the big roll over thingy rigs on the side so the car would survive, put a professional driver in a fire suit and VIOLA, they couldn't get one to roll over. They tried it at speeds from 15 mph all the way to 70 mph and moved the special "blow out wheel" to all four locations on the vehicle but couldn't get it to happen. Just take your foot off the gas, brake gingerly to normally and pull over.
Why are Ford Explorers Crashing? - Column - Car Reviews - Car and Driver
firestone tire blowouts was caused by a tire that is underrated for the weight. due to some inter-office miscalculations, ford specd that firestone tire which was not adequate for the vehicles weight. Ford said to simply raise the tire pressure so it could handle the load (near tires maximum operating pressure), however most people neglected to run it at the 43 or so psi and kept it at 36, causing delamination of the tread from the belts.
#425
05-10-2012, 09:34 PM
To be BRUTALLY honest and frank - to get anything you really want, you had better be damned good at customization yourself.
~Or know someone who is
STIPULATED:
"Anything mass produced will only in a general way satisfy anyone at all..."
There it is
(he sezzz, quietly)
Any questions?
THIS IS WHY you came here
That THING is now in YOUR hands, what do you wish to do with it?
It can truly become anything that you want it to be if you have the craft and skill (regardless of means) to make it YOUR OWN
*In all honesty - I never drive anything that I don't understand or have confidence in.
~Or know someone who is
STIPULATED:
"Anything mass produced will only in a general way satisfy anyone at all..."
There it is
(he sezzz, quietly)
Any questions?
THIS IS WHY you came here
That THING is now in YOUR hands, what do you wish to do with it?
It can truly become anything that you want it to be if you have the craft and skill (regardless of means) to make it YOUR OWN
*In all honesty - I never drive anything that I don't understand or have confidence in.
#426
05-10-2012, 11:03 PM
[quote=Greg5OH;11817254]
firestone tire blowouts was caused by a tire that is underrated for the weight. due to some inter-office miscalculations, ford specd that firestone tire which was not adequate for the vehicles weight. Ford said to simply raise the tire pressure so it could handle the load (near tires maximum operating pressure), however most people neglected to run it at the 43 or so psi and kept it at 36, causing delamination of the tread from the belts.
Where did you get your info? The 235-75x15 tire had plenty of capacity for the Exploder. Even at the factory recommended 26psi. Max inflation on the sidewall was 35psi.
The problems were caused by a bad batch of tires (Decatuer plant) in some cases, and inflation below 26 in others, plus a number of other causes like just plain old tires, damaged tires etc. None of which has anything to do with the weight rating of the tire, and nothing to do with running 43psi.
Ford spec'd 26psi because the Explorer was twitchy and darty with the higher pressures. (which I can tell you is true, having run higher pressures in mine pretty much the whole time we've had it)
http://www.slideshare.net/Danial822/...firestone-case
firestone tire blowouts was caused by a tire that is underrated for the weight. due to some inter-office miscalculations, ford specd that firestone tire which was not adequate for the vehicles weight. Ford said to simply raise the tire pressure so it could handle the load (near tires maximum operating pressure), however most people neglected to run it at the 43 or so psi and kept it at 36, causing delamination of the tread from the belts.
The problems were caused by a bad batch of tires (Decatuer plant) in some cases, and inflation below 26 in others, plus a number of other causes like just plain old tires, damaged tires etc. None of which has anything to do with the weight rating of the tire, and nothing to do with running 43psi.
Ford spec'd 26psi because the Explorer was twitchy and darty with the higher pressures. (which I can tell you is true, having run higher pressures in mine pretty much the whole time we've had it)
http://www.slideshare.net/Danial822/...firestone-case
#427
05-10-2012, 11:32 PM
I wonder how that "bad batch" of tires reached Venezuela, where Ford mounted tires from the local Firestone plant in Valencia (the same city the Ford assembly plant is, some blocks away). Here in Venezuela the investigations pointed at 3 possible causes: 4wd system failure, weak rear suspension (the rear suspensions were manufactured in Venezuela also), deficient tires.
I'll try to find what corrections were made, since those actually worked (no more roll-overs) they should point at the real cause/s.
I'll try to find what corrections were made, since those actually worked (no more roll-overs) they should point at the real cause/s.
#429
05-11-2012, 08:10 AM
Hotshot
Seems on topic to me.
The question is why would ford build anything the buyer wants and the discussion is fords rolling over. Am I missing something here? Maybe if they were talking about chevys rolling over then it wouldn't be on topic.
The tires failing is because of the low pressures... 26psi under a 4000# vehicle? That is just stupid. Car tires call for 44PSI to hold up 2000#.
If the tires call for 35psi THAT is what they should be inflated at! It IS fords fault for understating the psi on the door tag. If you run ANY tire below its recommended pressure, expect excessive heat build up and eventually delamination and/or blowout.
So if ford is willing to risk your life for a "smoother" ride why would anyone want to buy a ford anything? What else are they compromising to cover up their other mistakes?
The question is why would ford build anything the buyer wants and the discussion is fords rolling over. Am I missing something here? Maybe if they were talking about chevys rolling over then it wouldn't be on topic.
The tires failing is because of the low pressures... 26psi under a 4000# vehicle? That is just stupid. Car tires call for 44PSI to hold up 2000#.
If the tires call for 35psi THAT is what they should be inflated at! It IS fords fault for understating the psi on the door tag. If you run ANY tire below its recommended pressure, expect excessive heat build up and eventually delamination and/or blowout.
So if ford is willing to risk your life for a "smoother" ride why would anyone want to buy a ford anything? What else are they compromising to cover up their other mistakes?
#430
05-11-2012, 02:33 PM
Went back the op, kinda obscure in the question it poses...
Anyway, the low tire pressure spec (26 psi) WAS an effort on Ford's part to give people (well, many people, not all) what they want. A decent ride and predictable, stable handling.
When I looked at that, I decided that I'd run 35 psi as the tires will last longer that way. (Checking to make sure they still patterned correctly at that inflation.) The twitchy steering? You get used to it.
Anyway, Ford has hits and misses. One thing on this site that folks should remember, is that Ford (or anyone) is not going to make vehicles that appeal to the used vehicle market. A fairly small number of people love to buy 5 to 10 year old trucks with manual everything for little or nothing. With very basic time and attention, those vehicles will work for years. However, any automaker that targets that market will quickly go out of business.
Anyway, the low tire pressure spec (26 psi) WAS an effort on Ford's part to give people (well, many people, not all) what they want. A decent ride and predictable, stable handling.
When I looked at that, I decided that I'd run 35 psi as the tires will last longer that way. (Checking to make sure they still patterned correctly at that inflation.) The twitchy steering? You get used to it.
Anyway, Ford has hits and misses. One thing on this site that folks should remember, is that Ford (or anyone) is not going to make vehicles that appeal to the used vehicle market. A fairly small number of people love to buy 5 to 10 year old trucks with manual everything for little or nothing. With very basic time and attention, those vehicles will work for years. However, any automaker that targets that market will quickly go out of business.
#431
05-12-2012, 08:11 PM
Senior User
When it's worked so well for them up to now building vehicles they think folks want.
The problem with Ford and GM and Chrysler is they only see today,there for they cannot look back to yesteryear for inspiration and they cannot look to tomorrow for salvation because they screwed up so badly in the last 15 years.
If the big three were as good at designing and building autos as they are at platitudes and broken promises Toyota never would have stood a snowballs chance in hell.
The dealerships are another huge problem IMO, when is the last time you heard someone comment on how helpful the salesperson was or say something like gee they had no small print in the sales contract.
Customer service is a joke IMO and only getting worse.
I have been a Ford customer for many years and owned many New and used Ford products currently we own a 2007 Ranger but warrenty and product being what it is these days in 2012 we will be in the market for a new vehicle,
currently Ford has nothing that interests me. I guess that means Ford loses another customer.
It's truly a great shame and I'm sure if Henry Ford knew how badly his company has been driven into the ground he would roll over in his grave.
Rick.
The problem with Ford and GM and Chrysler is they only see today,there for they cannot look back to yesteryear for inspiration and they cannot look to tomorrow for salvation because they screwed up so badly in the last 15 years.
If the big three were as good at designing and building autos as they are at platitudes and broken promises Toyota never would have stood a snowballs chance in hell.
The dealerships are another huge problem IMO, when is the last time you heard someone comment on how helpful the salesperson was or say something like gee they had no small print in the sales contract.
Customer service is a joke IMO and only getting worse.
I have been a Ford customer for many years and owned many New and used Ford products currently we own a 2007 Ranger but warrenty and product being what it is these days in 2012 we will be in the market for a new vehicle,
currently Ford has nothing that interests me. I guess that means Ford loses another customer.
It's truly a great shame and I'm sure if Henry Ford knew how badly his company has been driven into the ground he would roll over in his grave.
Rick.
#433
06-14-2012, 07:14 PM
I love these guys that bash Ford quality. I have three in my driveway right now. Two have over 200k miles. The Fusion only has 140k on it. I rebuilt the transmission in my truck at 190k after years of heavy towing. My F350 replaced a F150 that had 240k miles on it when I sold it in 2002. The guy I sold it to is still driving it today. So bash quality. I have the track record to prove that wrong.
#434
06-14-2012, 07:45 PM
Ford Quality since the late 80's
I love these guys that bash Ford quality. I have three in my driveway right now. Two have over 200k miles. The Fusion only has 140k on it. I rebuilt the transmission in my truck at 190k after years of heavy towing. My F350 replaced a F150 that had 240k miles on it when I sold it in 2002. The guy I sold it to is still driving it today. So bash quality. I have the track record to prove that wrong.
87 Cougar - 396,000 miles. Still gets 25 mpg (parked till I get the new exhaust manifolds on)
92 Aerostar - 285,000 miles (blew the head gasket and junked it)
93 Aerostar - 110,000 miles. (daily driver)
95 Aerostar - 210,000 miles (after two deer strikes it had enough)
96 Aerostar - 200,000 miles (one deer strike and a burnt a valve, replaced it with the 93)
97 F150 - 245,000 miles. (still going)
00 Sable - 46,000 miles. (daily driver)
02 Taurus - 103,000 miles. (daily driver)
04 Explorer - 135,000 miles. (daily driver)
06 Milan - 64,400 miles. (just bought it so the jury is out on this one.)
Worst vehicle ever owned: 94 Dodge Caravan.
Other vehicles owned: 79 AMC Spirit, 64 Buick LeSabre, 77 Plymouth Sport Fury.
I'll take the Fords, thank you very much.
#435
06-14-2012, 07:47 PM
Quality:
87 Cougar - 396,000 miles. Still gets 25 mpg (parked till I get the new exhaust manifolds on)
92 Aerostar - 285,000 miles (blew the head gasket and junked it)
93 Aerostar - 110,000 miles. (daily driver)
95 Aerostar - 210,000 miles (after two deer strikes it had enough)
96 Aerostar - 200,000 miles (one deer strike and a burnt a valve, replaced it with the 93)
97 F150 - 245,000 miles. (still going)
00 Sable - 46,000 miles. (daily driver)
02 Taurus - 103,000 miles. (daily driver)
04 Explorer - 135,000 miles. (daily driver)
06 Milan - 64,400 miles. (just bought it so the jury is out on this one.)
Worst vehicle ever owned: 94 Dodge Caravan.
Other vehicles owned: 79 AMC Spirit, 64 Buick LeSabre, 77 Plymouth Sport Fury.
I'll take the Fords, thank you very much.
87 Cougar - 396,000 miles. Still gets 25 mpg (parked till I get the new exhaust manifolds on)
92 Aerostar - 285,000 miles (blew the head gasket and junked it)
93 Aerostar - 110,000 miles. (daily driver)
95 Aerostar - 210,000 miles (after two deer strikes it had enough)
96 Aerostar - 200,000 miles (one deer strike and a burnt a valve, replaced it with the 93)
97 F150 - 245,000 miles. (still going)
00 Sable - 46,000 miles. (daily driver)
02 Taurus - 103,000 miles. (daily driver)
04 Explorer - 135,000 miles. (daily driver)
06 Milan - 64,400 miles. (just bought it so the jury is out on this one.)
Worst vehicle ever owned: 94 Dodge Caravan.
Other vehicles owned: 79 AMC Spirit, 64 Buick LeSabre, 77 Plymouth Sport Fury.
I'll take the Fords, thank you very much.
