Why would Ford build anything the buyer wants?

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by Snowseeker I also totaly admit british cars along with german, italian, scandinavian, etc. cars suck. I have never worked on a worse car than the VW bug. That right there is the worst engineering I have ever seen out of any car. I also have been a ford fan all my life and have owned many ford cars and trucks. I currently have a 96 F250 in my sig. a 00 lincoln LS in my avatar, 77 T-bird, 68 mustang coupe, and a 89 F250. They are all great but they have their problems. I also own hondas though. A 02 odessey mini van, 88 CRX, and 91 CRX. I have owned many many other hondas as well and I must say they hold up and break down a LOT less than any ford, saab, chevy, dodge, or toyota that I or my wife have owned. And these are high mileage hondas too. Both crx's have over 225,000 miles and still going strong without hardly any problems ever! I say hardly because I am counting battery replacement and the occasional brake change but that is seriously it. The 02 odessey hasn't had a wrench touched to it yet besides for the oil pan drain plug and has 115,000 miles on the clock. My wifes last honda civic with 235,000 miles ran and drove perfectly. I didn't even change the oil on it, just added a quart about every 2 months lol. I had to replace the rear brakes once. People always ask me if I like my hondas and why I keep buying hondas. The short answer is yes and the whole shpeel but than I also tell them to ask people they see with hondas and see if they can find someone to say they don't like their honda. My dad (diehard ford man) has yet to find one person to say they don't like their honda. OK I'll dance this dance once again. Preppypyro and I have exhausted this subject. My daughter and I co-own a '90 civic 1.8L. The car was given to us by our neighbor who was the original and only owner. He meticulously maintained the car and provided all repair invoices and statements to prove it. The timing belt broke and he never had it repaired. I had the car towed to the repair shop as it was FREE, I didn't mind spending a few bucks on it. Three years later and a current total of 165K on the clock, I / we have over $2000 in this car. I will itemize. 2 CV axles 1 timing belt and water pump 1 distributor 1 alternator 4 fuel injectors 1 rear half of exhaust system 1 ignition module 4 new tires 1 windshield all new hoses and coolant flush Still in need of repair are two power windows Struts mutlifunction switch for wipers oil leaks I will admit, the car runs like a champ now. It creaks and groans, lots of road noise. I t reminds of driving a crop duster. In the interest of fairness, I would buy a new Honda Civic. This one however has been a POS. I have never sunk this amount of money into a Ford, I've never had to. My daughter is getting married next week and moving to Illinois. I'll miss her but good ridence to the car! Tim

[Snowseeker]

The 90 civic never had a 1.8 engine option. It is either a 1.5 or 1.6 unless the previous owner did an engine swap which would explain 80% of your issues with the car.


Good to hear someone has a honda on here though.

[Saleenguy]

I have owned 3 Honda cars in my life.
Two were awesome cars that just needed regualr service, and parts that wear out on any cars.....But one was a little bit of a headache, bit sure not what I would call a bad car.

I have owned 5 toyotas in my life, 2 cars, and 3 trucks.
Of those 2 trucks and 1 car were awesome.
But 1 car, and 1 truck were total pieces of ****.

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by Snowseeker

The 90 civic never had a 1.8 engine option. It is either a 1.5 or 1.6 unless the previous owner did an engine swap which would explain 80% of your issues with the car.


Good to hear someone has a honda on here though.

Sorry dude, 1.6L. No engine mods and nothing fancy, just repair efforts and bruised knuckles. The point of my post wasn't to stick a needle in your eye but to simply illustrate that Japanese auto enthusiasts are in denial of vehicle failures.

Tim

[wendell borror]

I agree there 100%, hondas break like anything else and there boreing.

[Snowseeker]

Originally Posted by tseekins

Sorry dude, 1.6L. No engine mods and nothing fancy, just repair efforts and bruised knuckles. The point of my post wasn't to stick a needle in your eye but to simply illustrate that Japanese auto enthusiasts are in denial of vehicle failures.

Tim

I understand, and yes I know all cars at some point break down and need repair. I work on honda regularly so I know first hand that they also do break down. But from my experiences with many many different makes and models that I have owned and work on I still have to say hondas are more reliable, break down less, parts are cheaper than other cars, and are easier to work on than any other make out there.

I am not biased with one brand or the other at all. I said I was a ford fan all my life but that doesn't stop me from owning a known good vehicle like a honda.

I just wish everyone could try out a honda with an open mind.

[Tremclad]

Ford I think is in the best shape of the three. Their European cars will save them. The Big Three have put too much stock in their trucks and SUVs and now that things are tight and everyone is turning to small cars, why would you buy an ancient platform Focus when you can buy a Toyota or a Hyundai (both at the very top of reliability). Fortunately for Ford, Europeans have no use for pickups and so they had to develop great cars like the new gen Focus they have that we don't and the Fiesta.

Ford needs to rethink a few things too, like the Taurus. Why buy the most boring looking family sedan on the face of the earth when you can buy the same boring family sedan in a sporty looking wrapper like the Camry or Accord? same goes for Ford's minivan.

The Ranger most definitely needs a complete overhaul, how long has that platform seen service now?

But I think the most important thing the Big Three have to do is get rid of the unions. They are an ancient dinosaur of times gone by. They had a very important role in creating safe and reasonable work environments for factory workers decades upon decades ago, but all they are now is a parasitic organism that reduces productivity, efficiency, and drives up the overhead on each vehicle. Wage increases and job security should be earned through hard work and the sweat of your brow, not a new contract you can strike over if you're not appeased.

[NumberDummy]

Ford no longer offers a Mini-Van. The new Flex is Ford's alternative.

The Ranger was introduced in March of 1982 as a 1983 model.

[valdor]

Think snowman mentionend the VW bug are pain in but tto work on and HELL yes thats a fact. Espc if you are non mechanic.... Even them spark plugs are a pain in ass to swop. I do not like them flat 4 or 6 motors.
Fords European Branch do make good cars and the Focus and Fiesta are winners. Since they started platform sharing with Mazda and Volvo things are looking up financially me thinks. They made a nice SUV 4X4 based on the Focus, about Toy (spit) RAV sized. Was innitially called C-Max (but the poms gave it some daft name. Hope its not a felony to call the English poms... ). Except for perhaps the aging Ranger platform (some of) us in the rest of the world can only envy the US for their trucks.

[valdor]

Apology, i meant snowseeker not snowman. My mistake

[Fordsflylow]

Originally Posted by Tremclad

Ford needs to rethink a few things too, like the Taurus. Why buy the most boring looking family sedan on the face of the earth when you can buy the same boring family sedan in a sporty looking wrapper like the Camry or Accord? same goes for Ford's minivan.

The Ranger most definitely needs a complete overhaul, how long has that platform seen service now?

I couldn't disagree more!!! I see nothing at all wrong with either the new Taurus (500) or older gen, and I certainly don't think they're "boring" as you claim, but to each there own. Ancient platform Focus?

As for the Ranger's design, longevity, and durability would be hard to improve on and even moreso - unnecessary imo. Sure, there are a couple of areas that can maybe be improved on or offered such as a diesel or make it a bit wider....but.... a complete overhaul!?! Oh please!

[Tremclad]

That may just be my bias against mainstream sedans. The Taurus/Camry/Accord/Malibu/whatever are for the masses that no longer view cars as cars, but just appliance to get from A to B.

As far as the focus goes, North America is still using the same flawed 2000 platform just in a new wrapper. Europe is a couple of years into their brand new platform that is a world class small car.

Of the big three I really believe that Ford will survive the best. The new F150 is a work truck beyond the others and that's where the truck market is headed back to, trucks for people who need trucks, not just personal transportation. Plus the small cars from Europe and I was looking at the new 2010 Fusion and it looks like a nice car.

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by Tremclad

Ford I think is in the best shape of the three. Their European cars will save them. The Big Three have put too much stock in their trucks and SUVs and now that things are tight and everyone is turning to small cars, why would you buy an ancient platform Focus when you can buy a Toyota or a Hyundai (both at the very top of reliability). Fortunately for Ford, Europeans have no use for pickups and so they had to develop great cars like the new gen Focus they have that we don't and the Fiesta.

Ford needs to rethink a few things too, like the Taurus. Why buy the most boring looking family sedan on the face of the earth when you can buy the same boring family sedan in a sporty looking wrapper like the Camry or Accord? same goes for Ford's minivan.

The Ranger most definitely needs a complete overhaul, how long has that platform seen service now?

But I think the most important thing the Big Three have to do is get rid of the unions. They are an ancient dinosaur of times gone by. They had a very important role in creating safe and reasonable work environments for factory workers decades upon decades ago, but all they are now is a parasitic organism that reduces productivity, efficiency, and drives up the overhead on each vehicle. Wage increases and job security should be earned through hard work and the sweat of your brow, not a new contract you can strike over if you're not appeased.

Ok there we go again bashing unions. Apparantly you don't watch the news or read the newspaper. Toyota (non-unionized) is shutting down how many plants for how long? Thier cost per vehicle is lower than the US automakers and they're still shutting down? Who in the hell is looking after the blue collar workers!? Are they getting paid? Do thier families deserve that? When the economy is great and cars are selling, the unions never get bashed, when things go to hell in a handbasket the evil empire called the UAW or any other union must be at fault. I agree, the ubnions protect all the wrong people and enab;e people to slack and get away with it. But, they don't control the economy nor do they set policy for the company to build it's business model around.
Sorry for the rant.

Tim

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by Snowseeker

I understand, and yes I know all cars at some point break down and need repair. I work on honda regularly so I know first hand that they also do break down. But from my experiences with many many different makes and models that I have owned and work on I still have to say hondas are more reliable, break down less, parts are cheaper than other cars, and are easier to work on than any other make out there.

I am not biased with one brand or the other at all. I said I was a ford fan all my life but that doesn't stop me from owning a known good vehicle like a honda.

I just wish everyone could try out a honda with an open mind.

I have an open mind about Honda and Toy. As I mentioned, since all the work has been done, the car is sound as a clock. The only reason why I've never purchased a Honda or a Toy is because they are typically less inclined to negotiate to the terms that I want and normally get from a Ford dealer. I refuse to pay more for a vehcile than I FEEL that it is worth.

I respectfully disagree that the parts are cheaper.

Cheers!

Tim

[NumberDummy]

The shared GM/Toyota NUMMI Assembly Plant in Fremont CA is a union (UAW) shop.

This is the only Toyota plant in the US that is.

btw: The Saturn Assembly Plant in Spring Hill TN is a non shop, which AFAIK, is the only GM plant in the US that does not have a UAW presence.