good stuff. i dont want to go too crazy. I listen to mostly rock/metal but some rap/r&b. doesnt need to be ear shattering but have some umph when I want it. I have a rear bench so a premade box will be fine.
would 3 8" subs have more to it than 2 10" subs? I believe back in the day when I was into this, bigger subs could go deeper in the sound spectrum.
Here you go...try this guy...you wont be disappointed!!! Especially for 04 and newer since we cant just move the seat forward like the guys with 03 and older:
01 EXCURSION LIMITED, 4X4, V10, 325/50/22 TOYO'S ON CUSTOM POWDERCOATED WHEELS, 07 SUPER DUTY FRONT END, LOTS OF CHROME, 6 TV'S, CUSTOM STEREO, DUAL 175 AMP ALTERNATORS AND DUAL BATTERIES, CERVINI 3" COWL INDUCTION HOOD, CUSTOM MADE HID PROJECTOR HEADLIGHTS, TO MUCH OTHER STUFF TO LIST
Both playboy and Reax are correct - the mass of the cone as well as the surface area both affect which frequencies a given sub will be the most efficient. Generally, the larger the sub, the lower the frequency it can hit effectively, but will start to distort more quickly at higher frequencies (approaching mid-range in this case). The 10" subs will have a cleaner crisper sound at higher frequencies, but with their smaller surface area won't reproduce the extremely low frequencies as affectively. To some extent, you can get around this by using multiple subs operating on the same channel... but at that point it becomes a matter of personal preference.
8" subs however start to go beyond where having more speakers makes up for the smaller surface area - because they're going to have a shorter throw than the larger subs, and you'll need a lot more of them to get the same surface area. (2-12"s, 3-10"s, 4 or 5 8"s) Even if you could get them to hit as low, you would spend more money and have a more complicated system to do the same thing. If you had lots of room and a huge budget, they're perfect if you want to help bridge the gap between the mid's and the subs... but they aren't really practical. (A good set of 10" or 12" subs paired with a good set of mids and highs... each set running through a crossover that is set up correctly shouldn't have any gap in between the high and low range.)
For the most part, two 12's or three 10's will be pretty comparable for normal listening. Quality speakers make all the difference in the world. (Get the best your budget allows.)
If you have a fetish for low bass, your amp can only handle 2 subs or you just want to keep it simple... get 12"s.
If your amp can handle it, you're obsessed with crystal clarity and listen to music with more technical bass parts... get 10's.
One last note - this post is already too long... if you listen to a lot of electronic music or music where synthesizers are used... it can actually be beneficial to run the subs in stereo. It may not be quite as loud as running several subs bridged down to one channel, but there are some really interesting resonant effects that are completely lost when running single or bridged subs.
(Resonant effects are when the frequency of each sub is offset by 180 degrees, so that the subs are pushing in opposite directions. (one sucks in when the other pushes out) If they are using a shared enclosure with a common air space, this effect is exaggerated. and can be used to create some very strange effects. ... This is not to be confused with having the speakers connected to the incorrect +/- terminals)
Both playboy and Reax are correct - the mass of the cone as well as the surface area both affect which frequencies a given sub will be the most efficient. Generally, the larger the sub, the lower the frequency it can hit effectively, but will start to distort more quickly at higher frequencies (approaching mid-range in this case). The 10" subs will have a cleaner crisper sound at higher frequencies, but with their smaller surface area won't reproduce the extremely low frequencies as affectively. To some extent, you can get around this by using multiple subs operating on the same channel... but at that point it becomes a matter of personal preference.
8" subs however start to go beyond where having more speakers makes up for the smaller surface area - because they're going to have a shorter throw than the larger subs, and you'll need a lot more of them to get the same surface area. (2-12"s, 3-10"s, 4 or 5 8"s) Even if you could get them to hit as low, you would spend more money and have a more complicated system to do the same thing. If you had lots of room and a huge budget, they're perfect if you want to help bridge the gap between the mid's and the subs... but they aren't really practical. (A good set of 10" or 12" subs paired with a good set of mids and highs... each set running through a crossover that is set up correctly shouldn't have any gap in between the high and low range.)
For the most part, two 12's or three 10's will be pretty comparable for normal listening. Quality speakers make all the difference in the world. (Get the best your budget allows.)
If you have a fetish for low bass, your amp can only handle 2 subs or you just want to keep it simple... get 12"s.
If your amp can handle it, you're obsessed with crystal clarity and listen to music with more technical bass parts... get 10's.
One last note - this post is already too long... if you listen to a lot of electronic music or music where synthesizers are used... it can actually be beneficial to run the subs in stereo. It may not be quite as loud as running several subs bridged down to one channel, but there are some really interesting resonant effects that are completely lost when running single or bridged subs.
(Resonant effects are when the frequency of each sub is offset by 180 degrees, so that the subs are pushing in opposite directions. (one sucks in when the other pushes out) If they are using a shared enclosure with a common air space, this effect is exaggerated. and can be used to create some very strange effects. ... This is not to be confused with having the speakers connected to the incorrect +/- terminals)
Hope this helps.
good info. so if I listen to all types of music, what would you recommend? 2-12" shallow subs, 2-10" or 3-10"?
I listen to rock, rap, techno/eletronic...all of it
For those of us that use our trucks as trucks... yes. LOL. I haven't heard one myself, but "word on the street" is that if you have the 40/20/40 front seat, the JL box is a great way to go. It replaces the lower portion of the middle seat area, but who really ever sits there? You can see it HERE.
I'm going with a Kenwood DDX514 up front, Diamond Audio 6.5" components up in the front doors with 6x9's in the rear, and that single sub up front. Plenty for me, and I'll likely have the sub turned off when the pups are in the truck as well. To gain that control, I'll be using THIS JL Audio product that does 2 things: 1) gives 2 preamp lines from a single, and 2) allows "volume control" of the 2nd line, all the way down to fully muted.
__________________ Brendan
1999 F250 CC SB 4x4 7.3 PSD named "Nyx"
BTS VB;6637;A-pillar (pyro, boost, trans temp);XM radio;Alpine CDA-9831 w/RCA inputs;Leveling kit;Adrenaline HPOP;UnderCover tonneau cover;05 headlights
That was a great post, but I've kind of got to disagree with the 180 phase bit. 180 phase is usually considered deconstructive interference. It might give a inaudible, but you shouldn't hear it and it really shouldn't be done when the two speakers share the same airspace in a box. This is just what they taught, I haven't tried it, so there maybe more to it than I know.
So far, I'm not as impressed with 2 10s like I was when I had two 12s. Similar power, same make, same impedance and wiring. Just a bigger cab and smaller speakers.
For those of us that use our trucks as trucks... yes. LOL. I haven't heard one myself, but "word on the street" is that if you have the 40/20/40 front seat, the JL box is a great way to go. It replaces the lower portion of the middle seat area, but who really ever sits there? You can see it HERE.
.
has anyone heard one of the JL stealthboxes? either the console 10" or the rear seat 13"?
I bought one of those boss self- powered 10'' subs boxes with the amp built in and put it behind the rear seat. It does o.k., but I don't care for too much bass, it depends on your taste. It comes with a remote volume control you can put up front if you want to turn it down or off. I also have a boss e.q. and a separate amp for the radio behind the other seat. I wish I could get a better head unit but I have the factory 6 cd player with the nav. center gps built in and I don't want to lose the gps. I put some pioneer kevlar 6x8 speakers all around and blew them all right away, does anyone know of some quality 6x8's that can handle about 60 watts apiece? I could not find many in that size.
__________________
2008 ford f-250 cc 5.4 super duty , raider hi rise camper top with thule ladder racks, front winch bumper top gun, rear bumper top gun,12,000 lb. winch, 98 gal. aux tank, on board 12 volt puma air compressor w/10gal tank and 50' auto hose reel,1000 amp 2nd battery,1,000,2,500,6,000 watt power inverters, 9" hid lights, running boards, air horns by hadley, xm radio, fac. 6 cd nav. center, air bags, cb,2-4'12volt flourescent lights in back.
I'll have to figure out how to create sketches on here :-)
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReAX
That was a great post, but I've kind of got to disagree with the 180 phase bit. 180 phase is usually considered deconstructive interference. It might give a inaudible, but you shouldn't hear it and it really shouldn't be done when the two speakers share the same airspace in a box. This is just what they taught, I haven't tried it, so there maybe more to it than I know.
So far, I'm not as impressed with 2 10s like I was when I had two 12s. Similar power, same make, same impedance and wiring. Just a bigger cab and smaller speakers.
You are absolutely correct - 180 phase causes deconstructive interference, but it depends on the listeners position with respect to the speakers (distance and orientation) as well as the specific frequency at which the speakers were operating. At a constant single frequency, you would get pockets of constructive and deconstructive interferance propogating in a fan pattern as the traveling sund waves (each creating an arc around the front of the speaker) meet at various points... creating essentially standing waves of twice the amplitude (really loud) and zero (dead pockets). In the case of music in an enclosed cab (like a car or truck), aside from the irregular shape of the interior bouncing sound around, the music rarely stays at the same frequency long enough to create these standing waves of constructive/destructive interferance. The few times that it does - it's intentionally done by the artist.
(two bass guitars playing in stereo would only be noticeable if they held the same note, exaggerating their vibrato - but if you get an electronic artist who realizes he has two channels to work with - he may intentionally offset the phase) The effect created essentially hammers sound waves through one side of the cab, and then the other in an alternating fashion - and creates exactly the kind of standing waves you mentioned. Between slight variations in the frequency and the shape of the cars interior... the standing waves of interferance actually move around a little bit. To the occupants of the car - these roving pockets of constructive interferance feel almost as if the air is momentarily being sucked out of the car. With a powerfull enough system, it can actually be disorienting. :-) (or just amuse your friends)
So... in short... I agree with you completely about the standing waves and the constructive/destructive interference - but in this case, it's an intentional use of the phenomena.
(I'm secretly a physics junkie, have an AS for engineering - working on a BS and used to run a fabrication shop for a company that specialized in acoustics and sound abatement. Our sister company specialized in high end home theater and car audio... high end meaning someone dropped a couple mill. to build a theater with massaging theater chairs in an acoustically engineered room... not to mention the actual electronics.) Let me know if any shops in SoCal would like to hire an experienced fabricator that has an interest in electronics.
Still unpacking my new pad, but when I find my camera I'll have to see if I still have pics of the superduty the shop spent several months on. They filled the bed with aplifyers, caps and a V shaped custom enclosure with i think 8 competition 12's and the open end of the V ported into the cab. While I have rather different taste in trucks, (I like to be able to put stuff in them), I have to admit that they'd done an amazingly clean job of it. If anyone in FL recognizes this truck, let me know. I'd love to find out that they're FTE members. :-)
has anyone heard one of the JL stealthboxes? either the console 10" or the rear seat 13"?
I was in the car audio biz for over 5 years. I sold JL for about 3. Every single Stealthbox I ever installed sounded great. Almost always had decent output too.
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