1948 - 1956 F1, F100 & Larger F-Series Trucks Discuss the Fat Fendered and Classic Ford Trucks

Power steering

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  #16  
Old 11-12-2008, 04:12 AM
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alanco
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The Toyota does not end bump steer and hates good headers

Originally Posted by AXracer
Another vote for the Toy box. Works like it was made for it. I like Mid Fifty's hefty barstock mount over the strap iron ones some others sell. MF even sells a kit with everthing you need included.
To use the stock column (floor shift model) you will also need (not included in the kit but also available from MF) a lower column floor mount, a column/shaft lower centering bushing, and a horn button conversion kit or an aux. remote horn button. The stock horn button cannot be made operational without the ($$$) former unfortunately.
These are all reason why the power rack and pinion, with or without a kit is a better deal:
1. No header problems
2. No bump steer. (the position of the original box is not at the rear or front spring perch and so the drag link is a shorter radius than the axle pivot radius.)
3. Much easier installation.
4. The stock steering column, easily mounts a small roller or ball bearing at its bottom. You weld a bracket on the bottom of the steering column and bolt it to the firewall. You cut the stock steering shaft (after pulling the horn wire out) and it after grinding a small flat on it, mounts a u-joint to a fabricated steering shaft and u-joint which goes to the power rack. You make a small support out of mild steel strap which can go to the frame and then have a bored hole for the steering shaft near the power rack. The horn wire will thread through the original steering shaft and out the u-joint front section and a little bracket will be good to hold it as it does not rotate.

This all works like a charm. I installed one on a '53 (same as a '56-60). Most '56 F-100 users would want a Ididit Tilt column anyway, but the stock column, particularly for those wanting 3 on the tree instead of a T-5 or an automatic works just fine.

Alanco
 
  #17  
Old 11-12-2008, 01:09 PM
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alanco someone else talked about the rack and pinio and they thought it was a poor design. It will move up and down with the axle and the steering shaft moves in and out.

Is there someone out there that actually install the rack and pinion that can add their opinion on it?
 
  #18  
Old 11-12-2008, 01:30 PM
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Rack and Pinion is not a poor design!

Anyone who would say that a rack and pinion is a poor design is not an engineer and the comment is ridiculous, considering what it is replacing is certainly not a good design.

Of course it moves up and down with the axle, and the steering shaft also moves. That is intended. This design keeps the tie rods from moving up and down, eliminates the stock tie rod which is weak in the first place, eliminates all the friction inherent in worm and sector steering boxes whether power or not, the friction in the drag link, the play in the steering box, and the bump steer caused by the location of the stock steering box. The feedback you get and the strong steering return is superior. There is little play and easy steering even with the manual rack.

Now the rack and pinion box could be mounted on a crossmember right behind the axle, but the beauty of a beam axle is that it allows direct mounting of a superior steering box.

Fabricators of hot rods, are installing them by the carload all over the country on As, 32s. etc.

That's a bum rap, Pappy.

Alanco
 

Last edited by alanco; 11-12-2008 at 01:33 PM. Reason: addition
  #19  
Old 11-13-2008, 01:00 AM
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Sorry, but if one were to solidly mount an R&P box behind the solid axle the bump steer would be horrendous! Every time the end of the axle moved up and down the steering angle of that wheel would change independently of the other wheel as the tie rod end of the rack swung up and down. That's been the bugaboo with trying to use R&P with a solid axle in the past, builder's tried to mount it to the chassis. I'm not exactly a degreed engineer, but I do understand a lot about steering geometry, and I am not sold on the sliding joint on those R&P systems, I can forsee some significant wear and potential binding. I think a "Z" joint like Jag used might be a better solution.
 
  #20  
Old 11-13-2008, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by AXracer
Sorry, but if one were to solidly mount an R&P box behind the solid axle the bump steer would be horrendous! Every time the end of the axle moved up and down the steering angle of that wheel would change independently of the other wheel as the tie rod end of the rack swung up and down. That's been the bugaboo with trying to use R&P with a solid axle in the past, builder's tried to mount it to the chassis. I'm not exactly a degreed engineer, but I do understand a lot about steering geometry, and I am not sold on the sliding joint on those R&P systems, I can forsee some significant wear and potential binding. I think a "Z" joint like Jag used might be a better solution.
I disagree: first of all, any bump steer depends on tie rod alignment to the spindle, and if the R&P were mounted so that it was in an arc with its spindle arms, there would be no bump steer. Of course to make this work better, the spindle arms would be moved higher. But when the R&P is mounted to the axle, there can be no change in the tie rod to spindle with movement, so there is no bump steer possible. the only movement is to the steering shaft.

Compare a R&P to a center link with an pitman arm and an idler, and tie rods from the center link to the spindles. Same deal, if the tie rods were not in an arc with the spindle arm.. The height of the center link and the height of the spindle arm are calculated so that the range of motion of the spindle arm fits the radius of the tie rod/center link.
 
  #21  
Old 11-13-2008, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by alanco
There are a lot of better GM Truck power boxes on drag link type steering, however, all are mounted in front of the axle, not behind, but they by being mounted near the front spring perch, greatly eliminate "bump" steering that you get with the stock Ford (and Toyota) mount position. They require boxing the frame and cutting the inner fender panel and the air deflector and building a mount.

Alanco
Alan,

I have to disagree on this point that a front mounted steering box greatly reduces bump steer. If anything it makes it slightly worse due to the nature of the spring perches. The rear spring perches are fixed while the fronts can swing to allow for changes in length of the spring as it flexes. As the spring compresses the whole assy moves slightly forward, thereby causing some bump steer.

For clearance reasons around my big Caddy I mounted my toyota box ahead of the axle on my 49. Yes, I do get a bit of bump steer. Its not horrible and not much worse than any 60 year old truck that I've ever driven.

I can see your point for the bigger GM boxes for heavier duty or off road applications. You definatley don't want to be stranded out in the boonies without steering (walking home sucks). Most of the guys here are building street driven trucks adn the toyota box in the original location is a very practicle swap.

I've never seen an axle mounted rack and pinion system in person. I am curious about them and would like to see how the steering shaft works. It just seems a bit iffy to me. Maybe after seeing one in person I'd feel different about it.

Basically there are alot of options out there and many different ways to "upgrade" these old trucks. Its always cool to see some new way of doing things.

Bobby
 
  #22  
Old 11-13-2008, 11:32 AM
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Article on the rack and pinion install done on a vintage brand X Pickup.
Rack and Pinion Steering Assembly Kit - Custom Classic Trucks
 
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