Cat,Cummins,Detroit?

[FordF350Superduty]

Cat,Cummins,Detroit,Navistar - which best,reliable and long run engine?

[kermmydog]

I'm not sure what you are asking. They are all good engines, what application, what size engines, I mean what are you talking about?

[92f150I6]

I love the old school 2 stroke Detroits...... 12V71 mmmmmmm...drool......

[Louisville Joe]

Impossible to answer, depends on the application. All of those companies have built some legends (NTC-350, 3406B, 8V-71, DT466) and all have built some real turds (555, 1676, 8.2L, DV549). An old mechanic told me something years ago which I think is absolutely true: No diesel engine will continue to run with more things wrong with it than an old Detroit 71 series.

[rangersvt04]

I second Louisville Joe, those Detroit 71s are beasts!
All of the 71 series engines i have worked on have been stationary, driving a generator or a hydraulic pumps for winches.

i worked on one used as a gen set, a 3-71 that had brand new oil filters in it! the engine had a bad by pass valve. it allowed the oil to go around both filters! I cannot tell you how many Years this engine ran that way, no wonder it was hard starting.

Another story, 2-71 hydro pump used for a towing winch. the crew reported that it just stopped, the engine seized. i took a look at it yup its messed up. get the crane lift it off the tug. Get it into the shop, drain the oil, coolant. pull the inspection doors of the side of the block. I Find 2 old (mid 70s) Budweiser cans in the oil pan! The third can must have gotten split buy the crank, because part of it was ripped open and managed to block the oil pump pick up!

Detroit Diesel and GM Cleveland / EMD diesels are rugged machines!

[preppypyro]

Its kinda funny how some engines work too. I have a 444 cummins in a gravel truck, and so far its been a great engine.

They are typically not known as a great engine either.

Ive always been told to stay away from cat 3406b's. Cant recall the reason off hand though.

[The_SnowMan710]

idk, the 3406b are kindof an odd duck... u see, the b series with PEEC timing was the dawn of the computerized fuel systems in over the road trucks. but, it's not a fully computerized system. the ECM was used to control the timing, rack position(throttle), and monitor engine performance. i've studied on these a great deal and worked on them a time or two and from what i've done, they're not that bad of an engine, tho nowadays they're becoming obsolete.

the truth is, u can take any engine and it will sink or swim depending on the gearing placed behind it. a guy i farm for has an old frieghtshaker w/ the PEEC and i think it's an absolute turd in that truck, but it's b/c it's a straight up 9 speed. idk wat the gearing is in the axles but it's probably pretty steep to make up for the lack of forward gearing in the tranny.

but either way, hope u die-hard CAT people don't cry too hard if u haven't heard the news already. CAT is discontinuing it's engine line for over the road trucks b/c it can't keep up w/ the EPA's demands. by 2010, they will have the engines fazed out, but there is some good news...they will be teaming up with navistar (if i'm remembering right, correct me if i'm wrong) to produce a CAT branded truck. the catch? it's only going to be a severe duty truck, like a mac or a sterling. it will be featuring a CAT transmission spun by a navi engine, so we'll just have to wait a couple years and see how that one turns out.

[Econoline 150]

Originally Posted by Louisville Joe

Impossible to answer, depends on the application. All of those companies have built some legends (NTC-350, 3406B, 8V-71, DT466) and all have built some real turds (555, 1676, 8.2L, DV549). An old mechanic told me something years ago which I think is absolutely true: No diesel engine will continue to run with more things wrong with it than an old Detroit 71 series.

Back in 67 my employer bought several new Internatonals with the DV550s, those were absolute junk ! We later learned it was based on the V549 gas engine, and they were machined improperly from the factory. They also liked throwing rods for no reason, without warning ! Those things were down so much my employer didnt like sending them on longer distances in fear that they might break down.

[rangersvt04]

i don't think cat will drop their truck engines. hell they have teamed up with MAK to build bigger Marine Diesel engines. Those Marine Diesels meet teir 2 + emissions. i dont see a problem incorporating that tech into the road engines.

[jseim44]

It's a fact. They are dropping Class 8 OTR truck engines in 2010. Take a look at the Teir 2 emission standards and then compare them to the new 2010 standards. I would bet they're not even close. Fact of the matter is, Cummins and Detriot are having no problems meeting emission standards, but something about the Cat engine is giving them troubles meeting emissions. I don't know if it's in the design itself, or if it's their CGI and series turbos (although both are supposed to decrease NOx).

For fuel milage I rate them like this: Detroit, Cummins, Cat
For power: Cat, Cummins, Detroit

That's comparing a 3406E Cat, N14 Cummins, and a Detroit Series 60. All great engines, all have ran well for years.

My dad had a '98 Pete with the N14. He sold it with 800,000-900,000 on it and never overhauled. My uncle has a '93 Pete with a Series 60 (12.7L I believe) and 1.3 million miles. The bottom end was overhauled around 300,000. The rest of it hasn't been touched. The bottom end hasn't been touched since then either. My dad now has an '03 International with a C-15 Cat in it and doesn't get the greatest mileage, but he said it pulls better than his N14 (both had 13 speeds behind them).

However, I do love the sound of that Series 60 when being pulled hard and when the Jake's are on.

And the bottom line is - how well are they taken care of? Proper preventative maintence goes a long ways!!!

-Jake

[The_SnowMan710]

Originally Posted by jseim44

Fact of the matter is, Cummins and Detriot are having no problems meeting emission standards, but something about the Cat engine is giving them troubles meeting emissions.

if u look at the cummins ISX u'll see that it's running a true EGR. take a look at the C15. no EGR. What caterpillar does, and i haven't gotten a chance to read up on it too much yet, is kinda half way runs an EGR system, but it isn't a true EGR. for some reason, they refuse to run an EGR like everyone else, so if i were a betting man, i would say that's the reason why they can't seem to meet EPA standards. i'll have to look into it and see wat it is for sure, and what the name is that they gave it... it has something to do w/ the ACERT technology...

[jseim44]

They run CGI which is Clean Gas Induction. It's just like the C-EGR that Cummins runs on the ISX, except for the fact that their source of exhaust gas is taken AFTER the DPF. It is a form of EGR, but since Cat always has to be different they chose to do it this way. I don't have my Computerized Fuel book here right now, but I do remember that ACERT stands for Advance Combustion Emissions Reductions Technology. I don't remember what all they've done to create this aside from CGI and series turbos.

-Jake

[The_SnowMan710]

as far as i kno, nothing... it's been awhile since i took the class, but i did get from it that kittypillar could do more to make it work, but they would rather not.

[tjc transport]

Originally Posted by rangersvt04

i don't think cat will drop their truck engines. hell they have teamed up with MAK to build bigger Marine Diesel engines. .

if you are referring to Mack with that MAK, i would find your comment very hard to believe, since mack has not made their own engine for years now. mack uses a Renault engine in their trucks. -

[Econoline 150]

Originally Posted by tjc transport

if you are referring to Mack with that MAK, i would find your comment very hard to believe, since mack has not made their own engine for years now. mack uses a Renault engine in their trucks. -

Pretty sure they're using Volvo engines with revisions, since volvo owns them.