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  #31  
Old 07-29-2013, 08:58 AM
joegeds joegeds is offline
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Wow - great pics in this thread. Doing sheet metal work like that truly is an art form. I am a very beginner welder - took some welding classes about 30 years ago and have built several projects since. Things like a utility trailer, log splitter, etc. I have never used a MIG welder - only oxy-acetylene and a stick arc welder. I have 2 questions:
1) If grinding down the bead can be an issue, why not use a torch, and butt both pieces of sheet metal together (so they're touching) and not use any filler rod? In other words, just melt the two pieces of sheet metal together.
2) If the excessive heat can be a problem with warping the material, why not braze the two pieces together? As I recall, brazing doesn't require the heat that is produced with the MIG welder, and the braze material fills in any gaps very nicely. Maybe there is a problem getting paint to properly adheres to the brazing material when it's completely finished?
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Old 07-31-2013, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by joegeds View Post
Wow - great pics in this thread. Doing sheet metal work like that truly is an art form. I am a very beginner welder - took some welding classes about 30 years ago and have built several projects since. Things like a utility trailer, log splitter, etc. I have never used a MIG welder - only oxy-acetylene and a stick arc welder. I have 2 questions:
1) If grinding down the bead can be an issue, why not use a torch, and butt both pieces of sheet metal together (so they're touching) and not use any filler rod? In other words, just melt the two pieces of sheet metal together.


This is better known as fusion welding, and is possible with either the O/A torch or a TIG. Here is a sample I did in using the Tig...

Quote:
OK, you guys have been hearing me talk about fusion welding and since I was in the shop today I decided to show a sample of the TIG fusion welding. This takes me a bit out of my comfort zone, as I normally pick up the MIG, but here we go. Separate halves tacked together:
Quote:

Click the image to open in full size.

Note the lack of/minimal amount of HAZ around the tacks. This was accomplished by holding the electrode as close as you can without touching and using a quick zap. If held farther away from the panel, you see more blue HAZ surrounding the tack. Here is the fusion weld, no filler added.

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.


Back side.....

Click the image to open in full size.

Then, using this anvil to planish out the weld and HAZ:


Click the image to open in full size.


Results in this:
Front

Click the image to open in full size.

Back

Click the image to open in full size.

Nice and flat, no grinding required (in this case)

Click the image to open in full size.

Click the image to open in full size.

This method requires having an absolute tight joint, so fitment will be more time consuming, but just imagine all the time just saved over dressing out a MIG weld...

2) If the excessive heat can be a problem with warping the material, why not braze the two pieces together? As I recall, brazing doesn't require the heat that is produced with the MIG welder, and the braze material fills in any gaps very nicely. Maybe there is a problem getting paint to properly adheres to the brazing material when it's completely finished?
IMO the excessive heat is not neccessarily a factor keyed to the weld type. For example, the fusion weld I showed above has a respectable HAZ showing minimal heat. But someone using TIG or torch with filler rod, is now combining two processes; applying heat and applying filler. Someone not adept in performing these two processes together seamlessly will likely spend more time on the panel, applying more heat, for more damage as a result. Kinda like the walk, talk, and chewing gum. If the coordination isn't there, then perhaps the "point an shoot" of a MIG would be better suited to that person.

As far as the brazing process, the heat issue as per the above comments apply. Despite the lower heat temps needed, if someone is not skilled at applying the heat and filler, then any benefit of the lower temps used will be lost to sitting on the panel longer. As with any process, practice (on scraps) is key. Regarding the adhesion issue with brazing, I think there is less an issue with the brass as there is with the flux used in the process. Most adhesion issues can be attributed to flux contamination.

In the end, practice your methods using scraps the same thickness as your vehicle's panels, and once you are satisfied with the results (regardless of which process) then proceed to working on the vehicle.
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  #33  
Old 10-13-2013, 02:31 PM
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Great info and pics from a very skilled metal worker. I cant believe I haven't seen this sticky until today. I'm in the 48 - 56 forum and rarely venture out but glad I did today. I learned a few things and I'll be checking in for more so keep it coming. Thanks!
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  #34  
Old 10-13-2013, 05:02 PM
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Much of the metalwork I'm doing is for non-Ford truck projects, although the sheet metal knows not.. Check out my shop projects in my signature to see more..
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:18 AM
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Right welder?

I have been reading a lot of these threads and am buying a Hobart 140. I am going to be doing sheet metal work with it. I am hoping to use the flux core to mig weld and not so much of the gas. I welded a bit in school but been away from it for a while. Am I buying the right tool to do this work? I know there will be a lot of trial and error. Thanks
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Old 12-15-2013, 07:18 AM
 
 
 
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