Inline diesel's typically have a slightly different torque curve that makes them better in heavy duty or towing situations. I am a Powerstroke fan, but I think Ford would be better off with an inline diesel. In the F150, I dont understand why they are developing a 4.4L v8, when they could simply get a 4.5L inline 4 cylinder Deere, CAT, or Cummins motor and use that (fitted with proper emissions equipment). In south america, the super duty trucks use 3.9L cummins 4 cylinder engines.
The trucks in South America also have to meet different emissions and other requirements than the North American trucks.
The problem with using a 4.5 I4 Deere, Cat or Cummins motor is that those motors are not meant for use in a pickup. The 4.5 I4 Deere motor in 180hp trim makes that power at 2,200RPM. The peak torque is much lower than that. This is too narrow of a powerband for a pickup truck. There is also the issues with the weight of the motor and the durability when used in automotive applications. Remember that these vehicles need to start in sub zero temps and run without overheating at 100 degrees. The PowerTech 4.5 weights 1,000lbs alone. I believe a 5.4 SOHC weighs in at around 650lbs. The extra 350lbs is a lot of weight on the front end and that doesn't include the extra weight of the intercooler, charge pipes, etc. If Ford were to put a diesel in a 1/2 ton, it needs to be a motor that is built for a 1/2 ton truck IMO.
I agree with that assessment, Chris. If Audi can make a turbo diesel that'll win Le Mans, Then Ford can make one to power an F150. It's my understanding that the diesel engines in the Audi Le Mans cars are aluminum and make some awsome power and get better fuel mileage than the gas engines of the competition. I think it could be done in a pickup. But there would be some emissions hurdles to overcome that the racers don't have to deal with. That could make it too expensive.
The trucks in South America also have to meet different emissions and other requirements than the North American trucks.
The problem with using a 4.5 I4 Deere, Cat or Cummins motor is that those motors are not meant for use in a pickup. The 4.5 I4 Deere motor in 180hp trim makes that power at 2,200RPM. The peak torque is much lower than that. This is too narrow of a powerband for a pickup truck. There is also the issues with the weight of the motor and the durability when used in automotive applications. Remember that these vehicles need to start in sub zero temps and run without overheating at 100 degrees. The PowerTech 4.5 weights 1,000lbs alone. I believe a 5.4 SOHC weighs in at around 650lbs. The extra 350lbs is a lot of weight on the front end and that doesn't include the extra weight of the intercooler, charge pipes, etc. If Ford were to put a diesel in a 1/2 ton, it needs to be a motor that is built for a 1/2 ton truck IMO.
I realize that as-is, the deere or cat engines would be unsuitable for on-road use, but could probably be made to work without a ton on re-engineering. Who knows, maybe Deere or Cat wouldn't ever be interested, but then again if Ford approached them about a venture using an existing engine platform in an F-150, they just might go for it. Im not getting my hopes up, as it probably wont ever happen, However, Cummins could be a viable option, as they have common rail 3.9L and 4.5L engines that do meet emissions standards. I dont expect we will ever see a Cummins in an F150 from the factory, but I think it would be plausible. Just some things to think about.
As far as the RPMs go, think about it, you want max torque and power around your cruising or towing speed. Those engines can turn 3000 RPMs when needed (passing, etc), but you dont need to sustain that RPM for a length of time. For instance, my Cummins 4bt is governed at 2800RPM and produces max torque at around 1700, which is my rpm at 60 mph. Therefore, on the interstate, I am running at about the engine's peak effeciency level.
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1995 Ford F-150
Black/Silver-Extended Cab-4x4-M5R2
Powered by a 3.9L Cummins 4BT TurboDiesel
Caterpillar is out of the onhighway North American engine business as of January 2010.
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2004 E-450 6.0 139,000 miles
7,500 mile, 15 quart oil changes, 5W-40 Rotella.
UOAs consist of checking for metal on drain plug magnet. All stock, no mods. Dyed fuel with no additives. Never been reflashed.
Total parts replaced;
one EGR valve.
I agree with that assessment, Chris. If Audi can make a turbo diesel that'll win Le Mans, Then Ford can make one to power an F150. It's my understanding that the diesel engines in the Audi Le Mans cars are aluminum and make some awsome power and get better fuel mileage than the gas engines of the competition. I think it could be done in a pickup. But there would be some emissions hurdles to overcome that the racers don't have to deal with. That could make it too expensive.
Not so sure about that being to expensive. FORD already has the 6.7L Scorpion engine for the SuperDuty line (soon to be released in the 2011 model line up in March 2010). So...if FORD just uses that technology for the new 4.4L we would be good to go. Keeping power in the 300hp and 425 ft/lbs torque. All I can say...is that would be an awesome F150...IMO.
I agree with that assessment, Chris. If Audi can make a turbo diesel that'll win Le Mans, Then Ford can make one to power an F150. It's my understanding that the diesel engines in the Audi Le Mans cars are aluminum and make some awsome power and get better fuel mileage than the gas engines of the competition. I think it could be done in a pickup. But there would be some emissions hurdles to overcome that the racers don't have to deal with. That could make it too expensive.
Believe it or not, the Audi R10 diesel LeMans racer actually has a full emissions system, including two DPFs.
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- Ian
1987 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4 2.9
Needs a lot of work, including some rot on the body, but shes getting there.
Well then Ford should be good to go. All they have to do is keep the price reasonable, get better fuel mileage than their competitors, make good power, and not have the same problems they had with the old 6.0L. I certainly would be interested.
That is what happened to me, I got tired of waiting for Ford to make a diesel 1/2 ton so I made my own (with the help of www.4btswaps.com ). I now have a 4x4 F-150 that gets 25mpg on the highway. Wouldn't it be nice if politics didnt get in the way of innovation and efficiency?.
I agree.........
Nice job on your truck by the way
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00 F350 4x4 Power Stroke 6spd drw rack body 4.10
Master Slacker #12
Leader of the New Hampshire Chapter.. Come And Join -CLICK HERE
I believe the recently announced new fuel economy rules from the Obama Administration will kill diesels in light duty trucks and probably in cars as well. To the EnviroNazis, diesels are soot-producing monsters which increase global-warming. Even though diesels are more fuel-efficient, what goes against them is the CO2 they produce. And we all KNOW that CO2 is bad and increases global-warming, oops, I meant to say "climate change". Even though the plant life on our planet convert CO2 into oxygen.
If we grow algae for biodiesel, using waste CO2 from power plants, we'll solve the excess CO2 problem and grow feedstock for biodiesel.
It's possible that our "climate change" problem is more due to overpopulation than anything man made. But with the re-gens and dpf's the diesels will be better than gas engines as far as polution and fuel economy.
I believe the recently announced new fuel economy rules from the Obama Administration will kill diesels in light duty trucks and probably in cars as well. To the EnviroNazis, diesels are soot-producing monsters which increase global-warming. Even though diesels are more fuel-efficient, what goes against them is the CO2 they produce. And we all KNOW that CO2 is bad and increases global-warming, oops, I meant to say "climate change". Even though the plant life on our planet convert CO2 into oxygen.
If we grow algae for biodiesel, using waste CO2 from power plants, we'll solve the excess CO2 problem and grow feedstock for biodiesel.
Phil
IMO...the NEW fuel economy rules from the Obama Admin is a GREAT thing! It forces the auto industry to get off there duffs...and engineer cleaner diesel vehicles. This in the long run can only benefit both yours and mine lungs. YES...produce less CO2...and help those plants along the way.
It might cost a bit more, but IMHO...well worth the cost. Heck...just go visit Los Angeles, CA sometime. With all the pollution control in cars...and that place still has a smog issue. Cannot even imagine if there were NO pollution controls. (cough...weez...weez...cough...etc.)
Now that the 6.7L PSD is coming...and the technology with it. Makes for the F150 to benefit. Less R&R...and can bring a 4.4L to market that costs less to develop. The 6.7L PSD is truly ground breaking for FORD.
I agree with biz4two. But why do we keep talking about a 4.4l? Why not hope for a 5.0l V6 Scorpion? (That whould be 6/8 of the new motor.) And make it available in the F-250 also.
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2006 6.0l Lariat 4wd, CC, LWB, Auto, Tow Command, 18 inch wheel option, 10,000 GVWR
I agree with biz4two. But why do we keep talking about a 4.4l? Why not hope for a 5.0l V6 Scorpion? (That whould be 6/8 of the new motor.) And make it available in the F-250 also.
Because Ford actually developed a 4.4 V8. I guess if a 5.0 V6 is 6/8 of a 6.7 V8 - it would also be 3/4. Just an idea.
It's possible that our "climate change" problem is more due to overpopulation than anything man made. But with the re-gens and dpf's the diesels will be better than gas engines as far as polution and fuel economy.
Explain how a DPF and regens lead to better mileage....
The DPF's are to pacify the tree huggers. Everybody gets rid of them asap. We already know how to defeat the DPF's, so if I have to have one on my F150 diesel to get one that's ok. I'll just get rid of it asap.
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