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Old 10-16-2008, 03:39 PM
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Cold weather Ratio's

Is there such thing as a cheat sheet for the cloud point of different ratio's of biodiesel to diesel for the winter months. Temps here are starting to get down below freezing at nights. I know that it varies with the type of oils that are used, but are there ballpark #'s? In North Dakota, the stations are still selling 5% bio in Feb., and they are much colder that we are.
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Old 10-21-2008, 02:41 PM
Stroked99 Stroked99 is offline
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It is my understanding that ratio isn't going to be much of a factor. Diesel will gel as much if not quicker than washed and dryed biofuel if you are running 100%. If you are worried about gel, then from what I have read, that you can treat it the same with an anti-gel treatment and continue to run the same ratio if not 100% Bio.

Just my $.02.
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Old 10-21-2008, 07:12 PM
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Trent, finding your "cloud point" is very easy. Just mix up various "mixes" like B-100, B-80, B-50, B-20, Etc, in a clear jar ( I use Jiff peanutbutter jars). Then put each in your freezer with a thermometer in it, and check it about every 5 min. When you see it start to turn "cloudy" that will be your "cloud point". Let it get colder until it starts to get "thick", and that will be your "gel point". I use B-100 from about the end of March till the end of Oct. I then switch to B-80 which will get me down to about +10 deg. If I think it's going below +10, I switch to B-50 that get's me down to about 0 deg.
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Old 10-28-2008, 11:01 AM
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stoked99,
That is not a true statement.

First off if your north of the Mason Dixon line the manufacturers start adding anti-gels to the fuel being delivered around the end of Sep. to the beginning of Oct.

Secondly - as discussed in many threads on here bio made of different types of oils have different cloud points.

Third - Anti-gels don't work in B-100. I just picked a gallon of Diesel-Kleen and it now states on the label that it will work in Bio/diesel mix up to B-80, but you have to use double the amount you would use with straight diesel.

I've been making and running Bio here in the northeast since spring '06 and you have to add diesel come winter. With the oil I get, at around the mid thirty's I start adding 10% - 20% diesel to my tank to be safe depending on how long it will take me to run through that tank of fuel. If I'm going to go through a full tank right away I will use less dino. If its going to be a while I will go with the 20% to cover me if lower temps hit.
As the temps drop over the winter I continue to increase the percentage of dino that I add. I have run 50/50 w/additive up in Canada at temps as low as -10F* with good results.
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Old 10-28-2008, 12:21 PM
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We will probably run our first batch about 50/50, just to see how it works. At this info is very helpful though, it will come in handy once we start making more and getting better @ it. thanks all.
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Old 10-28-2008, 01:39 PM
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http://www.nrel.gov/vehiclesandfuels...pdfs/40555.pdf
See page 35 for a chart.
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:28 PM
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thanks!

Another site to tag in my favorites, more info to ponder. I believe most of the oil that we are getting is canola, which from the charts on pg 33 looks to have a lower cloud point. Will need to remember, temps are celcius though.

thanks Tazo for the link!
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Old 10-28-2008, 09:00 PM
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Correction to my post above. It should read...
I just picked up a gallon of Diesel-Kleen and it now states on the label that it will work in Bio/diesel mix up to B-20, but you have to use double the amount you would use with straight diesel.

B-20 not B-80
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazo View Post
Excellant informative reading. Thanks for the post. Tom
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:51 PM
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Tom,
Your welcome. I did a lot of research before I started using bio. There definitely is a learning curve when using bio. The only problem I am having is I am addicted to biodiesel. I guess I need to find a 12 step program for biodiesel users.
Mike
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-Midwest short throw shifter-Splitz lift-Wilson cell antenna & Amp--Isspro ev gauges-fuel-pyro-ebp
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:20 PM
Tom D Tom D is offline
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Originally Posted by tazo View Post
Tom,
Your welcome. I did a lot of research before I started using bio. There definitely is a learning curve when using bio. The only problem I am having is I am addicted to biodiesel. I guess I need to find a 12 step program for biodiesel users.
Mike
I too am addicted to bio. I live in Central Florida and run B100. The past couple of nights it has gotten down into the lower 40s at night. It still starts good but I just hate the thought of having to POLLUTE my nice bio with #2 OIL. The longer I can hold out the better. I don't suppose I will need to dilute any more than B80, although there have been some winters it has gotten down into the 30s at night. Tom
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Old 10-30-2008, 06:20 PM
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