I assume you realize your calculations are based on 100% city driving. I'm at least 80/20 with 80% highway miles. The Escape hybrid gets 30 mpg and the 4-cylinder gets 28 mpg on the highway. I paid $2.29 for a gallon of gasoline this weekend.
I noted that in one of my posts, that hybrids are viable for primarily city driving. Gas prices are lower now, but I doubt they will stay that way. After the economy recovers you can expect to see petrol demand increase again, driving up prices once more. The days of $1.50/gallon fuel are behind us.
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At the end of the day, the hybrid is not only a joke but it's a huge scam.
Did you read what I said about early adopters making the technology affordable and viable for adopters of the technology as it matures? The price point, as it gets lower, makes them more attractive with each passing year.
Additionally, many hybrid owners add plug-in conversions (very inexpensive) that makes the car almost all electric. Some of the folks on the green hybrid forums get 50 to 80+ mpg in their city commutes with this simple change, saving money because power from the grid is far less expensive than generating it while driving. Concerning mileage, note the case above where the Escape hybid owner is getting 38 mpg... it'll pay off for him.
For me, a hybrid isn't viable because I don't put many miles on my vehicles. $4.00/gallon fuel (and much higher with my diesel) didn't have much of an impact on me. If I was still in the corporate world driving in traffic with all those angry and frustrated looking drivers it might be a viable option for me - so I'm not going to laugh at the hybrid owners. One thing is certain, I wouldn't be driving my F150 or F250 in such conditions if I could avoid it.
Consider this: how many truck owners are spending tons on money on exhausts, intakes, etc. or bogus items like "HHO generators" chasing down higher mpgs, when the results are neglible and can take years to recoup. Or people spending thousands on propane conversions for their diesels, or spending countless hours making their own fuel (maybe their time isn't worth much to them, mine is). Isn't that just as silly as the arguments used against hybrids?
__________________ -Ken
If you need to get in touch with me email me at ftsservice at gmail dot com or via AOL IM: motorhavenken. The best is yet to come....
I just think it's funny a bunch of excursion owners are discussing mileage...
I have a bike that gets 50mpg when I need that...
heck, the excursion still gets more MPG than my samurai
I just think it's funny a bunch of excursion owners are discussing mileage...
I have a bike that gets 50mpg when I need that...
heck, the excursion still gets more MPG than my samurai
Well, I think it's funny, but it still raises points.
I had a couple options. Have two vehicles or one. I need to tow a good size trailer with some regularity. Going to diesel in 2002 meant that I decreased my consumption of fuel by 30 to 50%. That was money in the bank, period. Even with the excess oil required by oil changes, I was money ahead by not performing maintenance and repairs on ignition coils, cracked exhaust manifolds, etc. Basically, I figured that I needed to see diesel at 50% more per gallon vs gasoline for me to look at a gas motor again. Maintenance would still have to be revisited.
The second car has ranged from a very nice Taurus to a pretty crummy Honda Accord. All were able to deliver mileage from around low to mid 20's with only my 1990 Sable being able to provide some consistent above 30MPG. With the possibility of the Excursion giving 20MPG, I traded the Taurus on the X and sold my big E350 dually. Moving 8 adults is something that I couldn't do in the other vehicles. Handy when we take trips with our kids, sister in law, and mother & father in law. That would require two vehicles normally at a cost of more than what it would take to do it in just the X.
Well, I think it's funny, but it still raises points.
I had a couple options. Have two vehicles or one. I need to tow a good size trailer with some regularity. Going to diesel in 2002 meant that I decreased my consumption of fuel by 30 to 50%. That was money in the bank, period. Even with the excess oil required by oil changes, I was money ahead by not performing maintenance and repairs on ignition coils, cracked exhaust manifolds, etc. Basically, I figured that I needed to see diesel at 50% more per gallon vs gasoline for me to look at a gas motor again. Maintenance would still have to be revisited.
The second car has ranged from a very nice Taurus to a pretty crummy Honda Accord. All were able to deliver mileage from around low to mid 20's with only my 1990 Sable being able to provide some consistent above 30MPG. With the possibility of the Excursion giving 20MPG, I traded the Taurus on the X and sold my big E350 dually. Moving 8 adults is something that I couldn't do in the other vehicles. Handy when we take trips with our kids, sister in law, and mother & father in law. That would require two vehicles normally at a cost of more than what it would take to do it in just the X.
I was in the same boat....I had a '90 taurus wagon(23mpg average)and fading fast, a suburban with a 350 and 325K on the ticker and a 02 hyundai that was doing fine...
a 22ft steel deck trailer to hauler my rock rig around on...and a wife and 3 large dogs...
nothing would haul everything in one shot
sold the hyundai and burb and bought the diesel x...it had 72K on the clock and good maintainence records, hauls the family and trailer and doesnt' flinch and still gets 14mpg.....
I couldnt' ask for a better trade
I own a heavy ass Super Duty... and the urge to slam people who buy these, well its human nature. But I can't make blanket statements like so many others here do. Maybe it makes you feel better about driving a fuel guzzling barge like mine by making fun of people who don't... but do the math.
VaSheriff laughs because the break even point (not including the credit) is 56,667 miles. Well, from that point forward the hybrid owner is laughing all the way to the bank. If he puts 170,000 miles on his hybrid he has saved $20K over the non-hybrid model.
I know some folks with hybrids and I can assure not everyone buys them for some sort of fashion statement. Besides, its funny when people laugh at fashion conscious people who bought hybrids... because so many people bought huge trucks and suvs for the same exact reason, and those are the type who now regret it (secretly or not).
Me... I've been a truck guy for a long time, from old beaters to performance trucks, Rangers to Super Duties... my sense of fashion... sneakers, t-shirts and blue jeans kind of guy.
Excellent post.
I am one of "those people" who own a hybrid (Honda Civic, 2008). I have been a "Buy American" guy all my life. But you know what? When gas peaked at $4.50-plus here in northern CA, and I found myself spending close to 850 bucks a month on gas (I drive 125 miles a day, sometimes more) I decided I HAD to do something radically different. I would have bought an "American Made" econo car, if there was one available that does what the Civic Hybrid does. There is not.
I get a routine, swear-on-a-stack-o-bibles 45 MPG every single day with it, and I drive it hard; I am not one of those people who poke along at 50 MPG on the freeway and draft semi trucks to eek out another 1-2 MPG. I am not in this to save the environment or "make a statement". It's all about dollars.
I would rather be putting those dollars towards a future education for my kids and keeping a roof over their heads, and food in their bellies, instead of giving it to the oil companies and the various hostile countries that they (have to) do business with. And as far as "sending money to Japan", I'd sure as hell rather spend it with them, as opposed to sending it to the aforementioned sleazebags. I ain't giving them a freaking dime more than I have to.
Other than the Honda, Our family fleet consists of:
2005 Cadilac SRX Northstar AWD (18 MPG) >>>Wife's weekend car
2007 Ford Super Duty CC FX4 King Ranch PSD (19 MPG) >>> My weekender, and tows our 36 foot fifth wheel travel trailer, flatbed, etc
Did you read what I said about early adopters making the technology affordable and viable for adopters of the technology as it matures? The price point, as it gets lower, makes them more attractive with each passing year.
OK, but that doesn't make me want to be the owner of a $1200 Beta VCR.
The point is that most people drive the majority of their miles on the highway. Even if they don't, the hybrid isn't cost-effective.
The more miles you drive in a vehicle that gets a higher mpg than the mpg of whatever you were driving previously, the more the benefit. Certainly, a hybrid doesn't make economic sense if you don't drive much. but if you are driving a lot of miles, the math works.
I am one of "those people" who own a hybrid (Honda Civic, 2008). I have been a "Buy American" guy all my life. But you know what? When gas peaked at $4.50-plus here in northern CA, and I found myself spending close to 850 bucks a month on gas (I drive 125 miles a day, sometimes more) I decided I HAD to do something radically different. I would have bought an "American Made" econo car, if there was one available that does what the Civic Hybrid does. There is not.
I get a routine, swear-on-a-stack-o-bibles 45 MPG every single day with it, and I drive it hard; I am not one of those people who poke along at 50 MPG on the freeway and draft semi trucks to eek out another 1-2 MPG. I am not in this to save the environment or "make a statement". It's all about dollars.
I would rather be putting those dollars towards a future education for my kids and keeping a roof over their heads, and food in their bellies, instead of giving it to the oil companies and the various hostile countries that they (have to) do business with. And as far as "sending money to Japan", I'd sure as hell rather spend it with them, as opposed to sending it to the aforementioned sleazebags. I ain't giving them a freaking dime more than I have to.
Other than the Honda, Our family fleet consists of:
2005 Cadilac SRX Northstar AWD (18 MPG) >>>Wife's weekend car
2007 Ford Super Duty CC FX4 King Ranch PSD (19 MPG) >>> My weekender, and tows our 36 foot fifth wheel travel trailer, flatbed, etc
I must've missed something between saving money for the kids versus driving the hybrid like a raped ape and owning a Cadillac SRX and King Ranch Super Duty. Oh the irony.
I must've missed something between saving money for the kids versus driving the hybrid like a raped ape and owning a Cadillac SRX and King Ranch Super Duty. Oh the irony.
Sorry, I don't see any "irony".
What is wrong with having the right tool for the job?
Each of my vehicles fits their intended usage, perfectly.
You sound more like someone with a case of wallet envy, than anything else.
The point is that most people drive the majority of their miles on the highway. Even if they don't, the hybrid isn't cost-effective.
I didn't buy either of my Escapes worrying about when I would break even on the upcharge. I was already driving an Escape that was perfect for me except for the mileage. But consider this:
I drive roughly 15k miles a year. At 18 mpg that I averaged in the V6 (documented), that's 833 gallons a year. At 35 mpg lifetime average in the hybrid (again, well documented), that's 429 gallons a year. Here is the cost saving per year:
$1 per gallon: $404
$2 per gallon: $808
$3 per gallon: $1212
$4 per gallon: $1616
That is each year. I figure by year five, I'm money ahead on gas.
I could afford to drive anything I want but the Escape-sized vehicle is all I need most of the time. I just chose the optional drive-train that gives me better mileage. Some people pay extra for the bigger engine in their trucks (whether they need it or not) that gets worse mileage....what is the payback period for that?
And finally, I've heard a lot of talk about city versus highway driving and wanted to clear up another myth or misconceoption if you will. The Escape hybrids do very good on the highway, very good in the city but do GREAT in a mix of both. My commute is a mix of 50 mph highway (15 miles), two miles through part of Boston (Kenmore Square area) and seven miles of Parkway type roads at 40 MPH.
But even on all highway driving, the Escape hybrid (32-33 mpg) does better than the V6 (22-24 mpg or so) or the four banger (28 mpg I hear). The point is, you get the vehicle that suits your needs and lifestyle.
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-Ken
Oh the irony.
