The only hybrid owners I make fun of are the ones going 90 mph down the freeway then go into my husbands work complaining that they arent getting good gas mileage!!!
That's strange. Almost of all the Hybrids I see around the Tulsa area drive extra slow, almost to the point of being dangerous. They all seem to accelerate slow and then barely get to the speed limit. This is on the highway or city streets. I don't know that if their thinking by driving slow they are saving gas or what.
you are all forgetting the simple fact of the "population bomb". Dosn't matter if we DOUBLE or TRIPLE or QUADRUPLE the gas mileage of our transportation.
Here's the simple fact none of you apparently want to deal with. Indians and Chinese have become industrial nations. That means they are developing a middle class. They have 10 - 20 - maybe 100 people to our one. And their females are breeding like rats.
Dosnt take a mathmatician to see they will want cars, boats, airplanes in numbers far greater than any technology improvement in fuel burn can possibly provide.
My recommendation ?
ALCOHOL... ( NO NO..dont waste it by running your vehicle on it....DRINK it ! )
good point, hopefully their middle class likes growing their own fuel
__________________
2002 7.3 PSD 4x4 Nothing out of the ordinary.
No one has proven that CO2 emissions are bad. What they are calling
theories are not qualified to be theories, they are hypotheses.
example - no one has shown that greenhouse gases won't reflect
sunlight and keep it from warming the environment.
Chinese are on a downward population trend.
Hybrid cost comparisons have been skewed - they use cars that are
at a higher level of comfort and capacity for the gasoline side of the
contest. If they would use cars that are equivalent, things come out
quite different.
Diesel cars kick hybrids' butts in every measure of economy.
Maybe it makes you feel better about driving a fuel guzzling barge like mine by making fun of people who don't... but do the math.
VaSheriff laughs because the break even point (not including the credit) is 56,667 miles.
Huh? VaSheriff laughs? I wasn't laughing in the original post.
I was asking for somebody to explain to me where the savings are.
In my case, and based on your theory, there would be no savings. I never keep a vehicle long enough to log 100,000 to 200,000 miles on them. The cost to replace the batteries has totally blown my mind now. I would never buy a hydrid now knowing this little tidbit of information.
Maybe the cost to replace the batteries is actually the joke I speak of now!
No one has proven that CO2 emissions are bad. What they are calling
theories are not qualified to be theories, they are hypotheses.
example - no one has shown that greenhouse gases won't reflect
sunlight and keep it from warming the environment.
Chinese are on a downward population trend.
Hybrid cost comparisons have been skewed - they use cars that are
at a higher level of comfort and capacity for the gasoline side of the
contest. If they would use cars that are equivalent, things come out
quite different.
Diesel cars kick hybrids' butts in every measure of economy.
Great post. Given the recent Chinese/Indian Industrial Revolution, the consumption of "fossil fuels" has increased a lot, in addition to being increased without the pollution controls that were developed and required in the West. Yet, over a decade, the average temperature has, in fact, decreased.
The pollution controls have been pioneered, developed, and implemented, but they are not required by socialist groups bent on using environmental controls to redistribute income, etc.
Hybrids are interesting. I see it no more than a transition to something else. A diesel hybrid would be at least interesting and offering opportunities for different fuels with increased economy. I'm preaching to the choir here, I'm sure.
I never understood why Hybrids didn't go diesel from the beginning...
the only hypothesis I have is that diesels wouldn't work with
environmentalists because they base decisions on emotion, and
already have the impression that diesels are "dirty".
Science does not influence true religious zealots (a.k.a. environmentalists).
They wil do whatever thier high priests and witch doctors tell them to do.
Hybrid cost comparisons have been skewed - they use cars that are at a higher level of comfort and capacity for the gasoline side of the contest. If they would use cars that are equivalent, things come out quite different.
I know better but I happened to see this thread....
I had a 2004 Escape V6. In my normal commute, I never got better than 17-19 mpg. Driving the exact same route in the exact same amount of time in my '05 or '06 hybrid Escape, I get anywhere from 33 mpg (winter) to 38 mpg in the other three seasons. Going on four years of gas receipts for backup if interested.
The battery pack on the hybrid is warrantied for 150,000 miles or 10 years. I think I'll be okay. There are many over 200k miles without any battery failures.
Has anyone ever NOT bought a SD expecting to have to drop three grand for a new transmission after the warranty runs out?
I also drive an old F250 when I have need for a truck. The Escapes are perfect for 90% or more of my driving (kids, work gear, etc. ).
I do like trees but have yet to hug one. In fact, the timber off my land will pay for my kids college education....
According many articles on hybrid forums, and industry press releases and articles the batteries in the average hybrid should last about 200,000 miles. In 2000 it cost about $10,000 to replace the batteries in the average hybrid. In 2005 the cost to replace batteries in an Escape Hybrid cost about $7200.
Let's assume the downward cost of batteries continues and in 5 years it will be $5000 to replace the batteries.
Escape Hybrid, 27 city mpg, 200,000 miles at $3 per gallon, assuming the driver puts these miles on the vehicle over 8 years:
$22,222.22 fuel costs
$ 5,000.00 battery replacement
$-3,000.00 tax credit
---------------------
$24,222.22 total
Escape, 17 city mpg, 200,000 miles at $3 per gallon, assuming the driver puts these miles on the vehicle over 8 years:
$35,294.11 total
Savings: $11,071.89
Don't forget there are other small savings with a hybrid. Because it uses power generation for the brakes there is much less wear and tear on the braking system. That's a few hundred dollars more saved.
About "toxic" waste.... the manufacturers have programs in place for recycling for reclaiming materials from the batteries. Let's look at emissions... the EPA average for CO2 emissions is 2421 grams per gallon or 5.337 pounds. The hybrid Escape will put out 39533.33 pounds of CO2 into the air over the course of 200,000 miles. The non-hybrid Escape will put out 62788.23 pounds of CO2 into the air over the course of 200,000 miles.
Rather than blasting early adopters of hybrids, I'm all for it. Why? Because just like other technology (flat screen TVs for example) early adopters assorb the bulk of the development costs, helping to drive down prices for those who buy when the technology matures. If in another 5 years we can get full size hybrid trucks and suvs for only $5000 more than a non-hybrid the savings of a hybrid will become even more significant.
So, in closing, I guess you could say hybrids are a joke... but in many cases the punch line is on the non-hybrid owners, not the hybrid owners.
I assume you realize your calculations are based on 100% city driving. I'm at least 80/20 with 80% highway miles. The Escape hybrid gets 30 mpg and the 4-cylinder gets 28 mpg on the highway. I paid $2.29 for a gallon of gasoline this weekend.
You might also want to include the original purchase price of the hybrid as compared to the gasoline model.
At the end of the day, the hybrid is not only a joke but it's a huge scam.
I know better but I happened to see this thread....
I get anywhere from 33 mpg (winter) to 38 mpg in the other three seasons.
....
That's only about 10 mpg worse than a 1979 VW Rabbit Diesel.
Progress marches... back.
A VW Passat diesel Wagon gets at least the same mileage as a hyperid,
and has more space, luxury, power and safety.
But diesels have an image of being smoky and noisy, while hypebrids
give the image conscious the ability to feel better than those of us
who would rather pay for more fuel and drive what we like to drive
(like the Excursion).
My gripe with hybrids is the exaggeration of their economy and
the notion that changing energy from one form to another will
result in less energy loss - that denies the laws of physics.
you are all forgetting the simple fact of the "population bomb".
Here's the simple fact none of you apparently want to deal with. Indians and Chinese have become industrial nations. That means they are developing a middle class. They have 10 - 20 - maybe 100 people to our one. And their females are breeding like rats.
My recommendation ?
ALCOHOL... ( NO NO..dont waste it by running your vehicle on it....DRINK it ! )
First off... drinking alcohol will only accelerate population growth.
Second - the population bomb myth has been worried about since way before
we were born.
I remember projections in the 60's and 70's that we would all starve well before
the year 2000.
Third, the current concern is a population shortage, not a surplus.
The Escape hybrid gets 30 mpg and the 4-cylinder gets 28 mpg on the highway......
At the end of the day, the hybrid is not only a joke but it's a huge scam.
If all you are doing is highway driving then the hybrid wouldn't make sense IF you were to buy the four-banger version. When I bought my '04 the V6 was the only option with the auto tranny which I had to get so my wife could drive it. BUT, I loved the car except for the horrible mileage. Now I have the best of both worlds - V6 like performance and great mileage. It fits my lifestyle.
Quote:
That's only about 10 mpg worse than a 1979 VW Rabbit Diesel.
Progress marches... back.
A VW Passat diesel Wagon gets at least the same mileage as a hyperid,
and has more space, luxury, power and safety.
I had a VW Rabbit diesel once - couldn't carry crap in it but it got great mileage. My '68 VW Baja Bug gets great mileage too. Can't really compare the utility of the vehicles, can you? And if I wanted to drive a VW, or any other Euro car, I'd have added them to my list of vehicles I'd consider. But, since I have never bought anything new that wasn't made by Ford, the Passat was off the table.
Quote:
But diesels have an image of being smoky and noisy, while hypebrids
give the image conscious the ability to feel better than those of us
who would rather pay for more fuel and drive what we like to drive
(like the Excursion).
I have met many other hybrid drivers and except for the few smug Obama sticker on the Priius enviro whack jobs I have come across, most of us are pretty normal people and don't give a rats *ss what you drive - why do the Excursion folks care so much what I drive? By the way, in March 1978 my family was one of the first in the Boston area to buy an Olds diesel - maybe we just like to be early adopters of the new toys. The car was great until the head gaskets went at 63k miles. By then I was driving and Dad and I put a large block in it......went much faster but used lots more fuel.
Quote:
My gripe with hybrids is the exaggeration of their economy and
the notion that changing energy from one form to another will
result in less energy loss - that denies the laws of physics.
Those articles have no credibility. Come on, Wiki? MSNBC?
There is no defying of laws of physics. But, there are ways to better use the energy. For example, using braking to generate electricity instead of heating up brake pads and rotors. Using regen in the Escape hybrid is like downshifting a normal car to first gear.
Don't want to get in the middle of a flame war here. This thread was a headline and happened to see it. I'll get back where I belong now but I'll leave you with this......when gas goesback to $4 a gallon this winter or next summer (and it will, unfortunately) I won't be hearing Excursion drivers b*tching about the $100 tanks again, will I?
No one has proven that CO2 emissions are bad. What they are calling
theories are not qualified to be theories, they are hypotheses.
example - no one has shown that greenhouse gases won't reflect
sunlight and keep it from warming the environment.
Who on here said CO2 emissions are bad? These pollutants certainly do not help, however, like you pointed out, these have not been proven.
We as humans have not been keeping track of the weather long enough to exactly know the trends of the Earth's climate; a few hundred years is not long enough to determine that humans are at fault for the on going climate change. Relative to the Earth's age, these few hundred years that humans have increased their emissions is just a tiny slice out of the Earth's total history.
I assume you realize your calculations are based on 100% city driving. I'm at least 80/20 with 80% highway miles. The Escape hybrid gets 30 mpg and the 4-cylinder gets 28 mpg on the highway. I paid $2.29 for a gallon of gasoline this weekend.
You might also want to include the original purchase price of the hybrid as compared to the gasoline model.
At the end of the day, the hybrid is not only a joke but it's a huge scam.
Well then obviously a hybrid is not your best choice. As Ken pointed out, hybrids are most efficient in city driving not highway driving. Some people only do city driving, so a hybrid would be best suited for them.
That's only about 10 mpg worse than a 1979 VW Rabbit Diesel.
Progress marches... back.
Not only are current hybrids much more cleaner than the VW, they weigh much more, have more HP & Torque, are quicker, and more than likely safer.
Thats like saying the Model T is superior to current vehicles. The Model T, I believe achieves something like 20-25 MPG, pretty good numbers for the time, therefore one would expect vehicles right now to achieve much better MPGs than what cars now get, but current cars are worlds better than the Model T in terms of power, safety, features, etc and are forced to meet a lot more standards that all add weight.
Quote:
Originally Posted by A VW Passat diesel Wagon gets at least the same mileage as a hyperid,
and has more space, luxury, power and safety.
But diesels have an image of being smoky and noisy, while hypebrids
give the image conscious the ability to feel better than those of us
who would rather pay for more fuel and drive what we like to drive
(like the Excursion).
My gripe with hybrids is the exaggeration of their economy and
the notion that changing energy from one form to another will
result in less energy loss - that denies the laws of physics.
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