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  #1  
Old 08-30-2008, 12:01 PM
milk123 milk123 is offline
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SD 4R100 torque shudder

On a 2001 4x4. I had it to two shops and they both said it was torque shudder. One of the shops said it could be more than that because when he was test driving it, the torque would not unlock while holding the throttle and tapping the brake. He mentioned a solenoid and spragg bearing or something. They quoted me $1800.00 for the repair.. Just some of the stuff i tried was someone told me to hold the brake just enough to turn on the brake lights and see if it would happen, it still happened. I don't repairing it myself if i knew what to replace. Thanks
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Old 08-30-2008, 05:39 PM
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I think you mean torque converter shudder. That can't be fixed with either thing he mentioned. There are only two ways to fix torque converter shudder. The first way is new trans fluid. The second is a new torque converter.

To change the fluid, either drop the pan AND remove the drain plug in the torque converter, or use this method:Changing ATF Fluid in a E4OD and 4R100 transmission .: Articles

Either way you do it, the right fluid is now MERCON V.

If that doesn't fix it the torque converter needs to be replaced.
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Old 08-30-2008, 09:33 PM
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Thanks Mark, i guess i need a new torque converter then., I just changed the fluid yesterday and put the Castrol Multi vehicle oil (mercon V)in and there was little or no change.. So you think if i change the converter, that shudder will go away? Are the descriptions i listed above usual for a bumed t/c, like still shuddering when i'm holding the brake or driving along and tapping the brake to unlock and it does'nt unlock?
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Old 09-01-2008, 12:56 PM
fivonut fivonut is offline
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If all you did was drop the pan then you only changed about 1/3 of your fluid. When I did mine I drained the pan and converter, drove it for a week, dropped the pan fluid, drove it a week and did it again. After the third change a lot of my shudder went away and the trans felt "tighter" but I still get some shudder when taking off from a stop with a car trailer on.
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Old 09-01-2008, 04:00 PM
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Start at the beginning? What is the issue? Is it just the TC not unlocking? What engine do you have. AFAIK, the diesels don't unlock even with tapping the brake after a certain speed. If you are getting a rough TC lock period, then the above methods are your recourse. Shudder on accel is typically a drive line angle concern though milk123.
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Old 09-01-2008, 09:45 PM
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Ok, i'll start at the beginning.. I bought this truck a couple of months ago.. It had a cracked manifold that was so loud, it masked alot of other problems.. Now i find myself here.. It's an 02' F250 Super Duty 4x4 with a 5.4lt gas.. The shudder is only in drive and overdrive while on the throttle.. Happens alot on the highway. I changed out the fluid and it made little or no difference.. It seems to be when the torque is locking and unlocking when it happens. Like everyone else's description, it's like running over a wash board for a second or two. The reason i brought up the other stuff about the brake was because one of the shops i went to said it should not shudder if you drive along and hold down lightly on the brake peddle. He said the tq should'nt lock. Or while driving you hold the throttle and tap the brake and your rpm's should rise.Rarely can you make that happen. Now with that being said, the mechanic that test drove it said that it could also be some solenoid or a valve that caused the tq to give trouble in the first place. He asked for alot of money to fix it.

So i know little about the inner workings of these parts but as for oil changes or part swaps, not aproblem. I really do appreciate the help.
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Old 09-02-2008, 02:57 AM
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I played with my diesel a little today and I don't think it unlocks at all with the brake, so i don't know if it is the same with the 5.4 or not. I'm not really aware of any issues with the solenoid causing a shudder either. IIRC, the TCC solenoid allows fluid to hold the TCC off, and vents fluid to engage it. If the fluid change didn't affect it, then it is probably in need of a TC, as the clutch lining may have become damaged.

it's a lot of work, because it's a large part, but it's is perfectly doable to change the TC yourself. Holding the 4r100 on a jack is impossible, so I made up a little jig to go in a jack when I have to do them on the ground (box trucks etc). Some sort of trans jack may be necessary to avoid a dangerous situation. On the lift, and with a trans jack, I could change out the TC in my 97 PSD in a little under 2 hours. You'll be good bit higher than that as you have to deal with the exhaust IIRC and the trans bolts also have other things attached to them which makes it a bit time consuming. You may also wish to separate the xfercase from the trans to make it easier to handle.
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milk123 View Post
I changed out the fluid and it made little or no difference.
When you changed the fluid how many quarts did you use to refill it?

All 4R100s should unlock with brake application, but only if the go pedal is less than 10%. If you're holding the pedal at more than 10% it will not unlock with the brake.
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Old 09-02-2008, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
When you changed the fluid how many quarts did you use to refill it?

All 4R100s should unlock with brake application, but only if the go pedal is less than 10%. If you're holding the pedal at more than 10% it will not unlock with the brake.


I drained the trans from the plug in the pan and the tc through the plug in the bell housing, it took 15 liters to top up. There was more oil in the tc than in the trans as i used two buckets and the tc one had more oil in it.
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Old 09-02-2008, 11:02 AM
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Then you did change all of the fluid. I suspect that the torque converter will need to be replaced to fix this.
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Old 09-02-2008, 04:13 PM
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Drive it for a few hundred miles before you decide to change the TC.

If it really is lockup shudder, after changing the fluid it can take a little while before it goes away. At least, that was in the TSB for the 4R70W lockup shudder
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Old 09-02-2008, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by krewat View Post
Drive it for a few hundred miles before you decide to change the TC.

If it really is lockup shudder, after changing the fluid it can take a little while before it goes away. At least, that was in the TSB for the 4R70W lockup shudder


Yeah that's definitly the cheapest way to go.. I'll wait and put another few hundred miles on it before i pull it apart. Hopefully it goes away. That's when it happens though especially in o/d and when the tq locks, i get the shudder.
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Old 09-02-2008, 10:27 PM
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I wonder, not that I would suggest doing it, but if limited-slip additive would make the shudder go away.

When I first did the Mercon V change to my '96 t-bird (4R70W tranny) for the known lockup shudder issue, when I first opened the first bottle of the stuff, I smelled limited-slip additive.

Which makes sense, as the LS additive is used in limited-slip rear-ends to keep the clutches from chattering.

What it would do to the rest of the clutches in the tranny, well, better NOT do it
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Old 09-03-2008, 12:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky View Post
All 4R100s should unlock with brake application, but only if the go pedal is less than 10%. If you're holding the pedal at more than 10% it will not unlock with the brake.
I played around a little with my 02 today. Up to about 40 mph it would lock the converter at steady speed with accelerator pedal, on decel it would unlock. After about that speed, it would stay locked even with tapping the brake pedal and no accelerator.
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:01 PM
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Just got back from the local Ford dealer with my new t/c. I'm just so sick of hearing it by now, I have to change it. Hoping to get it in by Monday. Lets hope that this is the problem.
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Old 09-19-2008, 04:01 PM
 
 
 
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