http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1wMkK_DVzjo

Looks like it was a video being taped during the "gumball rally" which is a cross country outlaw race basically. High end exotics racing cross country for a big money prize. I wonder if he got buzzed at high speeds and got scared and lost it?

 

You are a bit too late: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...y-control.html

 

So if that was to start to happen, what's the best way to react to avoid actually jackknifing?

 

Reach down and hit the trailer breaks while accelerating the truck... this will 'strighten' the whole thing out.

 

I knew about the trailer brakes, didn't know about accelerating the truck... learn something new every day. Granted, I've only towed a small car hauler a few times...

 

actually Mark that could kill you

1st reaching for the brake control removes your eyes from the road and then it removes a hand from the wheel therefore impairing your attention and control from where it should be
2nd acceleration creates momentum; sway requires momentum to continue
3rd accelerating the tow vehicle while braking the trailer creates brake fade in the trailer brakes; brake fade is NEVER a good thing

in most cases extreme sway causes extreme panic resulting in the driver trying to out run the trailer OR jamming on brakes to bring everything to a stop; unfortunately both behaviors can have deadly consequences

the best thing to do is remove your foot from the accelerator, try not to fight the sway and ride it out. as the sway lessens due to lack of momentum gently apply small amounts of brake and slowly bring the whole unit back under control and to a safe stop. once you are stopped figure out the cause of sway before continuing

Just so everyone knows this post was not meant to insult Mark or anyone else it was just meant to correct some well intentioned but unfortunately incorrect advice in hopes no one here ever gets hurt or killed in a sway situation

 

Assuming that your hitch and load is set up right, a gentle touch with steering and brakes is essential to safe towing. However, if it was starting to get away from you like that guy, reaching for the trailer brakes might be your only hope.

 

I had the same thing almost happen to me a couple of weeks ago towing a 24 TT with my Ex. I was going just a little too fast into a curve when the trailer caught a construction joint running down the road. You are right it does give you a sudden rush. I just let up on the gas and grabbed the trailer brake and straightened it right up. If I had not had a WD hitch things may have been different because it happened so fast. This is one of the reasons I prefer towing a fifth-wheel trailer, but that means I can not tow it with my Ex. Or does it, I also saw a truck, bumper towing a fifth-wheeled trailer. The fifth-wheel had a pair of wheels attached to the tongue, sort of like a tow dolly with a fifth-wheel hitch. I do not know how legal that would be.

 

Thats funny right there! Too bad ya coudn't get a pic... The main advantage to 5ver is weight distribution. You can load ALOT more tounge weight 'cause it is not unloading the front tires - what you described sounds like an accident waiting to happen!

 

It's worth mentioning that if you have your trailer brake controller set up to provide a moderate amount of braking on tip-in (ie: before it detects momentum change), then touching the brake pedal (to trigger the controller) without actually braking can have the desired effect. A properly setup prodigy will apply about 10% to 15% trailer brakes on tip in.

It's generally been my experience that any tendency to sway is an indication of too little tounge weight ... which can be exaserbated by having unequal pressures in your trailer tires (ie: more pressure in the forward axles than the rearward --- which has the effect of reducing the tongue weight).

5th wheel trailers are more stable due to two things: a) much more tongue weight; and b) having the pivot point between the tow vehicle's wheels rather than behind it.

Someone posted here (or on the other site) a hitch system by which the pivot point was extended under the vehicle to a point between the wheels. An upside down fifth wheel hitch if you can visualize. I havn't got a link handy, but the geometry of the situation makes a lot of sense.

 

western star,
OK - I really don't want this to turn in to a quarrel or anything, but there is nothing wrong with a little healthy debate.

I should have better quantified my statements, so I apologize for my quick, single line statement. However, it is the correct procedure.

I did not intend to imply 'stomp on the TV gas' and 'slam the TT breaks' (neither did you, but I wanted to clarify). I should have said light acceleration (or at least no deceleration of the TV) while while steadily applying the trailer breaks until the sway becomes more manageable, then start slowing the TV - all of this would happen in only a few seconds. This should be done in conjunction with even, steady control of the steering. In fact, you should keep the steering straight and not steer with or against the sway. The only time you should turn the TV is to avoid a collision and then it should be as small of a correction as possible - not a wild turning of the wheel (as was obvious in the video).

One thing that should be super clear to everyone is do not apply the TV/TT breaks by depressing the break pedal while in a severe sway; the TV breaks will decelerate the TV faster than the trailer and exacerbate the sway conditions, causing the trailer to jackknife (which is what looks like happened in the end of the video - when the X is facing the on comming traffic and the trailer is continuing on a straight path). Once the sway is under control, you can then apply the TV breaks.

Your method, while correct for situations where the vehicle(s) has lost traction (ie. snow, ice, hydroplaning), is not correct in this situation; which is what I was addressing. I would definitely apply your method in a loss of traction scenario.

In theory what causes a swaying action to build is that the trailer is actually traveling faster than the tow vehicle, basically trying to pass it; Of course the trailer cannot pass the TV so if nothing absorbs the extra energy built up the sway will continue. If something gives the trailer more speed the sway will increase. Therefore to correct sway we need to slow the trailer down while keeping the TV slightly faster. The idea here is to basically 'drag' the trailer and reduce the sway.

In the video, though hard to say for sure, it looks like the driver over corrected to get back in the lane (possibly due to a trailer tire blow out or dropping off the shoulder of the road). In this scenario what causes the sway, is the sudden change of direction pulls the trailer, then a counter change of direction allows it to push the TV. Everytime the driver tries turning the TV to counter the sway, he is actually adding more momentum to it. Kind of like when you're on skateboard zig-zaging back and forth - its the changes in direction that build up momentum and speed.

I have to admit, trying to find 'official documentation' to support my statement is difficult - but I remember this from one of the many career defensive driving classes that I have taken in the past, and that is what we were taught.

I did find the following site that better explains what I was trying to convey when sway happens
Quote:
- this is where practising applying your hand assisted brake controller will pay off. G-e-n-t-l-y apply the brakes using the controller. This will apply braking to the trailer only and therefore straighten it behind you. It is impossible to lock the trailer brakes using this method, so it is the safest reaction in a panic situation. If you can do so safely, also apply a little foot pad braking, but only if you feel you have control of the situation and will not panic by doing so.
- Try to slow down gradually. Without taking your foot off the gas, just back off a little.

And here: Controlling Sway under the heading Corrective Driving Techniques
If sway occurs, the single most valuable technique for counteracting it is independent actuation of trailer brakes, even though it requires removing one hand from the steering wheel for a moment.

So while I made have not made my statements entirely clear - they were accurate and the proper thing to do. (although in my head, it was completely clear what I was trying to say)

Of course, we all know the best thing to do is have a proper, balanced set up that prevents/controls sway in first place - but nothing is iron clad, so we need to plan and practice (if possible) so it becomes a natural reaction; you should be able to reach for and apply your trailer breaks without looking.

 

We could argue the theory all day, but I speak from 12 years of towing experience that letting off the gas and applying the trailer brake works been there and done that. I also agree from experience with MarkMoore's last statement.

 

Paul & Mark's methods may differ, but I see that the whole point is to create a pull between the TV and trailer, thus getting that trailer back in line. I personally prefer the hand-actuation of the trailer brakes via the controller, simultaneous to stepping on the accelerator a little bit, just because it's easier for me to control. One thing to remember is to stop the sway the moment you feel it happening.

I wonder if that X had a Hensley hitch. I sortof wish they did, just because I don't like the Hensley marketing or price. ;-)

 

As a Hensley owner...I too HATE the way they market that video. Those combos are absolutely ridiculous and leads people to believe that those types of combos are 'acceptable'...there's even some folks over on RV.net that are SURE that these types of 30+ foot trailers behind an Intrepid are much more stable than a 30' trailer behind an Ex. Now there's more to towing than simply the length of the trailer and wheelbase of the tow vehicle as is evidenced by this scary video.

However the Hensley DOES in fact work as advertised. A trailer pulled with a Hensley will not sway under any conditions except for a mechanical failure of a strut bar. In the case of a strut bar breakage or frame bracket slippage due to a shear bolt shearing...the result would be an uncontrollable trailer. There has never been a reported case of such an incident happening at highway speeds. The shear bolts are designed to yield if in very tight backing maneuvers (i.e. greater than 84°). But just because there hasn't been a reported case...doesn't mean it hasn't happened. I have removed my shear bolts and replace them with grade-8 bolts thru the frame after clearing that with Hensley...so frame bracket slippage is not a concern for me.

Regardless of your feelings about that foolish marketing video (which BTW is no worse or better than some of the tow vehicle manufacturers marketing videos...tetter todders, trains, rock mountains, etc...)...the Hensley is a superior piece of sway control over the typical friction based hitches (and that includes the Equal-i-zer, Dual Cam and standard friction bar).

From a link I provided on the other thread about this in this forum...it sounds like the trailer flipped after the video ended and the Ex got hit by two other vehicles...sounds like no one was injured (at least seriously).

We could speculate as to what started this incident to begin with...but the video starts well after the sway began and you don't see the aftermath of the wreck to inspect the hitch hardware or tires on the Ex or trailer...

All that is evident is that a horrific sway event was actually captured on video and thankfully all are apparently okay.

It's events like this that the $3,000 I shelled out for my Hensley remind me WHY I carry the ultimate in sway control. Having a Hensley does not make my setup invincible...but it goes a long way at preventing this type of damage, safety to my family and others on the road and loss of hardware and $$$...so to me...$3,000 is CHEAP insurance...but that's just my $0.02

Joe.

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...-use-this.html

link to mfg does not work in that thread, you can google "hitch-buddy" or "tow buddy" and see other sites discussing it, but I couldn't get on the actual "hitch-buddy.com" web site.