Towing 6500lbs 2400 miles RoundTrip. Is the Expy capable???
#31
08-11-2008, 09:13 PM
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The only reason I got the EB instead of the XLT was so I could get the 3.73 and rear air suspension and HD tow package.
-- Chuck
#32
08-11-2008, 09:26 PM
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#33
08-12-2008, 07:22 AM
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#34
08-12-2008, 09:23 PM
Lariat Trucker -
First, a few questions... Are you using any sort of anti-sway and/or weight distributing device for your trailer? Is your truck the EL, or standard length? Are you towing with O/D off?
About 2 weeks ago I took a 400 mile round-trip across Wisconsin to camp on the Mississippi. When I first started out, I noticed that the trailer was swaying quite a bit more than on our last trip. First order of business, stop at the CAT scale to check my Equal-i-zer setup. Weights were (approx, from memory)
Front Axle: 3000
Rear Axle: 4700
Trailer Axles: 5200
Before hitching up, I measured a tongue weight of 840. This is without water in the fresh tank, but with water in the heater and full (2x30) propane. If my memory is correct, I was about 400 lbs over on GAWR for the rear axle. I then shifted some items to the rear of the trailer, and raised the bars on the WD hitch 2 more holes.
Results:
Front axle: 3300
Rear axle: 4300
Trailer axles: 5300.
I probably could have gone up 1 more, and certainly will need to for our next trip when we are bringing our dogs with us. Lesson learned, more gear in the trailer, less in the truck. Boy, did that make a handling difference getting those extra 300 lbs on the front of the truck. Not even a hint of sway, even when being passed by semi's running 10+mph faster than me.
Mileage, 8.8 out, 11.1 back due to combination of hills and wind working against us on the way out. I rarely used cruise control because if speed would drop 1 MPH, the truck would downshift all the way to 4th. If "I" ran the pedal, I could get it to drop to fifth and hold speed when approaching a hill, then gain on the downside of the hill. Average speed was 55-60. Trans temps averaged around 192, with peak interstate at 206, peak stop and go at 209.
First thing I would look at in your setup is the anti-sway/WD setup. If you don't currently have one, I can't say enough great things about the Equal-i-zer but there are a number of good ones out on the market.
First, a few questions... Are you using any sort of anti-sway and/or weight distributing device for your trailer? Is your truck the EL, or standard length? Are you towing with O/D off?
About 2 weeks ago I took a 400 mile round-trip across Wisconsin to camp on the Mississippi. When I first started out, I noticed that the trailer was swaying quite a bit more than on our last trip. First order of business, stop at the CAT scale to check my Equal-i-zer setup. Weights were (approx, from memory)
Front Axle: 3000
Rear Axle: 4700
Trailer Axles: 5200
Before hitching up, I measured a tongue weight of 840. This is without water in the fresh tank, but with water in the heater and full (2x30) propane. If my memory is correct, I was about 400 lbs over on GAWR for the rear axle. I then shifted some items to the rear of the trailer, and raised the bars on the WD hitch 2 more holes.
Results:
Front axle: 3300
Rear axle: 4300
Trailer axles: 5300.
I probably could have gone up 1 more, and certainly will need to for our next trip when we are bringing our dogs with us. Lesson learned, more gear in the trailer, less in the truck. Boy, did that make a handling difference getting those extra 300 lbs on the front of the truck. Not even a hint of sway, even when being passed by semi's running 10+mph faster than me.
Mileage, 8.8 out, 11.1 back due to combination of hills and wind working against us on the way out. I rarely used cruise control because if speed would drop 1 MPH, the truck would downshift all the way to 4th. If "I" ran the pedal, I could get it to drop to fifth and hold speed when approaching a hill, then gain on the downside of the hill. Average speed was 55-60. Trans temps averaged around 192, with peak interstate at 206, peak stop and go at 209.
First thing I would look at in your setup is the anti-sway/WD setup. If you don't currently have one, I can't say enough great things about the Equal-i-zer but there are a number of good ones out on the market.
I have been working on really trying to dial-in my equalizer set up over the past few weeks after picking up our TT in July. I have an 07 EB 4X2 119" with HD tow and the 3.31.
My most recent weights look VERY similar to where yours were before your last EQ adjustment. My most recent weights from 8/2/08 were:
-tongue weight = 825 (sherline scale)
-front axle = 3,000 (this is my normal unhitched front axle weight)
-rear axle = 4,220 (only 30 lbs. left before I hit max. Also my unhitched rear weight is 3400 so mathematically it's pretty clear almost all my hitch weight is still being carried on the rear).
-trailer axles = 6580 (this was very fully loaded for a week long vacation at the beach with the family).
-Gross Weight 13,800 (again very fully loaded).
My EQ set up right now is with 8 total washers and I have moved my L bars up 1 hole so they are now in the 6th hole from the top.
Because my front axle weight right now is equal to my unhitched weight and it looks like almost all my hitch weight is on the rear axle I'm thinking I will move my L brackets up 1 more hole to the 7th from the top.
Again, just curious as to where you have your EQ adjusted to right now.
ChuckS - I recall you also have an 07 Expy and use the EQ, how is your's set up?
Many thanks!
#35
08-13-2008, 06:38 AM
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I have 8 washers in the 1000/10,000 pound Equal-i-zer head. Mainly to take the slop out of the Ford receiver. (See below.)
My L-brackets are mid way on the frame.
I'm about 4800 pounds but with nearly 700 on the ball with two Trojan T125 batteries on the tongue.
I noticed you have no front suspension compression. This is vital. If you're at 8 washers I'd go up a hole on the L-brackets. Or find a way to shim the drawbar to take the verticle slop out of it. That's worth a couple of washers by my guesstimation.
The slop in the receiver shows very well here. This is my Explorer, but the Expedition slop is the same. Eliminate the slop and you'll get more weight transfer without putting the bars wierdly high.
-- Chuck
My L-brackets are mid way on the frame.
I'm about 4800 pounds but with nearly 700 on the ball with two Trojan T125 batteries on the tongue.
I noticed you have no front suspension compression. This is vital. If you're at 8 washers I'd go up a hole on the L-brackets. Or find a way to shim the drawbar to take the verticle slop out of it. That's worth a couple of washers by my guesstimation.
The slop in the receiver shows very well here. This is my Explorer, but the Expedition slop is the same. Eliminate the slop and you'll get more weight transfer without putting the bars wierdly high.
-- Chuck
#36
08-13-2008, 07:33 AM
Thanks, Chuck - I can clearly see the "slop" from your pictures. I haven't notice it myself but I'll take a look. Any suggestions on how to shim the drawbar?
My lack of compression or lack or weight increase on the front also has me concerned. Imagine how it was before I added 3 more washers and went up one hole on the L brackets to 6 from the top rather than the recommended starting point of 5 (this is how the dealer set it up).
I am going to try to go up one more hole on my L brackets this weekend. Have a trip planned up to the Blue Ridge Parkway for a weekend camping trip in the mountains of NC. From there we're headed a bit further north to Bristol, TN for the NASCAR race week. Will end up being about 450 miles total. I'll post an update when I get back.
Thanks again.
My lack of compression or lack or weight increase on the front also has me concerned. Imagine how it was before I added 3 more washers and went up one hole on the L brackets to 6 from the top rather than the recommended starting point of 5 (this is how the dealer set it up).
I am going to try to go up one more hole on my L brackets this weekend. Have a trip planned up to the Blue Ridge Parkway for a weekend camping trip in the mountains of NC. From there we're headed a bit further north to Bristol, TN for the NASCAR race week. Will end up being about 450 miles total. I'll post an update when I get back.
Thanks again.
#37
08-13-2008, 12:53 PM
I'd highly recommend upgrading to the Reese Dual Cam. Craigslist and EBay might be a good place to look, since they don't really wear out.
#38
08-13-2008, 02:19 PM
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Well we made it back. Here is my report. The Expy EL tows great. I have towed thousands of miles over the last 10 years with my 2000 F250(7.3), and my 2008 F350(6.4). I was really surprised by the performance of the Expedition. The Expy averaged around 12 mpg for the overall trip of just under 1800 miles. There were only a couple of high altitude grades that made me wonder what my F350 would be doing. And one instance where I smoked the brakes coming down I70 just past the Eisenhower Tunnel. I definitely saved money driving the Expy. My family was more comfortable, and I didn't miss my F350 one bit.
I chose to use the Expy over the F350 because it was capable of hauling the load, offered more interior room for my family of 5, has a DVD wireless headphone system, and gets better mileage than my F350.
If I were to make any changes to my tow combination, I would add a set of trailer brakes on my other trailer axle. Braking was the only deficiency I experienced, and that was under extreme conditions.
I sent my F-350 to the dealer the day before we left to have the leaky radiator replaced. My F-350 gets around 12.5 mpg unloaded, when I pull anything it drops to 10mpg or less.
The EPA really screwed up diesels with all of the emission controls. What is the point of cleaner emissions if it takes 1.5 times as much fuel to go the same distance?
If you are towing 7000lbs or less with a properly equipped trailer/hitch, then I highly recommend the Expedition EL. It really exceeded my expectations.
I chose to use the Expy over the F350 because it was capable of hauling the load, offered more interior room for my family of 5, has a DVD wireless headphone system, and gets better mileage than my F350.
If I were to make any changes to my tow combination, I would add a set of trailer brakes on my other trailer axle. Braking was the only deficiency I experienced, and that was under extreme conditions.
I sent my F-350 to the dealer the day before we left to have the leaky radiator replaced. My F-350 gets around 12.5 mpg unloaded, when I pull anything it drops to 10mpg or less.
The EPA really screwed up diesels with all of the emission controls. What is the point of cleaner emissions if it takes 1.5 times as much fuel to go the same distance?
If you are towing 7000lbs or less with a properly equipped trailer/hitch, then I highly recommend the Expedition EL. It really exceeded my expectations.
#39
08-13-2008, 04:47 PM
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Makes me a little disappointed that I dont have anything to tow with it anymore. Traded the giant P.O.S. travel trailer for a 5th wheel... which I'm pulling with a Super Duty diesel. Whole different ballgame there!
#40
08-14-2008, 09:14 AM
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When I was at 8 washers, and the 5th hole:
Front 3000
Rear 4660 (about 400 lbs over)
Trailer 5280
Gross 12940
When I was at 8 washers, 7th hole:
Front 3280
Rear 4120
Trailer 5420
Gross 12820
Unfortunately, I also did some rearranging of gear from truck to trailer so I can't say that moving the washer 2 holes transfered all of those 500 lbs of weight off of the rear. I likely will be moving to the 8th (and last) hole for my next trip, where we will be adding 200 lbs of dogs in the tow vehicle.
Like Chuck said, you will want to transfer some of that weight to the front. If I were you I wouldn't hesitate to move to that 7th hole. I can tell you that when I was on the 5th hole setup I sure was experiencing sway, and not as responsive of steering as I would have liked.
#41
08-14-2008, 12:17 PM
I would have to concur. When comparing how well my '05 Excursion V-10 with with 3.73 (and later 4.56 gears and Banks Powerpack) towed my old '30 TT, to how well the Expy EL did, I'd have to say the Expy actually had the upper hand. Not sure if it was the 6-speed tranny, or the improved power-to-weight ratio, or what but the Expy EL got it down the road and up the mountains with greater ease (and better mileage) than the Excursion.
Makes me a little disappointed that I dont have anything to tow with it anymore. Traded the giant P.O.S. travel trailer for a 5th wheel... which I'm pulling with a Super Duty diesel. Whole different ballgame there!
Makes me a little disappointed that I dont have anything to tow with it anymore. Traded the giant P.O.S. travel trailer for a 5th wheel... which I'm pulling with a Super Duty diesel. Whole different ballgame there!
#42
08-14-2008, 05:02 PM
Like Chuck said, you will want to transfer some of that weight to the front. If I were you I wouldn't hesitate to move to that 7th hole. I can tell you that when I was on the 5th hole setup I sure was experiencing sway, and not as responsive of steering as I would have liked.
#43
08-16-2008, 05:51 PM
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I got some great news today Ford has agreed to make the gear ratio change. They replaced the sway bar and lost 90% of the trailer sway. I spoke to my local SCT tuner (Gearheads) and after they replace the gears (next week) and flash the ECM, he is going to take it over to the dyno and build two tunes, one for mileage and one for towing. SCT doesn't make a canned tune for Expeditions, so he is going to build one. I guess I could have "monkey'd" the hitch but the new sway bar Ford installed made it unnecessary.
#44
08-16-2008, 07:15 PM
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Let me know about the tunes, I have an xcal 2, and have talked to bamachips about getting a tune for the expedition. They told me that the 6 speed is the problem, although they made me one for my 06 explorer which has the same tranny? So if they are willing to do one for you, I get a $200 trade in for my xcal2 for a 3. Maybe we can do a group buy if enough are interested.
#45
08-17-2008, 09:52 AM
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Will do "nfntruth" it looks like it will be the week before labor day when I get over to Travis for the tuning. Next week they will do the gear swap and flash at the dealership. I will be taking a trip to Gulfport,MS the weekend of 9/6 for the drag races. I should be able to relay all of my vehicle/towing experiences after that.