What really bugs me about the 6.0 and Ford/International
For as much as I rip the 6.0, I love driving them when they aren't blown up. With the way prices on trucks have fallen, I'd even get one because I could afford the blow up that would make it strong.
The thing that really frustrates me is that the biggest issue with the 6.0, the head gaskets, has a solution. True heads and deck with head studs. There you go, problem solved for the most part and especially on stock trucks. It doesn't cost all that much, why not do it?
The problem is, and I'm not defending Ford on this by any means, is that it's all figured out based on statistical cost/risk analysis... Whatever they're saving by sticking with the TTY bolts over the studs must be more than what they're paying out on warranty head gasket and bolt replacement claims.
Being in the era of information thanks to the internet though, this approach may prove a little bit short sighted as more and more people join in to the discussion on these types of forums before making a purchase decision... The apparent fact is though it's still such a small percentage of truck owners at present that it's not enough to get Ford's attention or impact their decisions... and it's AMAZING how many blank looks I've gotten from other 6.0 owners when I try to strike up a conversation about the potential TTY bolt / head gasket issue with these trucks; there's a lot of owner's driving these trucks that don't have a clue on the matter.
The best thing you can do at present if you drive a Ford is to find a good, reliable, local Ford service garage and build a relationship with them... my local Ford garage is one of the contributing reasons that I own a Ford -- they're the best I've ever dealt with anywhere.
I think the biggest problem is cost during assembly. Most of the engines are built by a combination of robots. With TTY bolts, you only need one robot to bolt down the heads. Now with headstuds, you'll need to add another robot to the production line, one to put in the studs, and another to put the nut on and torque it down. That adds alot of cost and complexity to the production line, if you consider it was already setup for the TTY bolts
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- Ian
1987 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4 2.9
Needs a lot of work, including some rot on the body, but shes getting there.
I loved my 6.0 but I never could trust it, the reason I traded for a 7.3. If I was a millionaire I would buy another 6.0 and do all the "fixes" on it, like headstuds, turbo, egr system delete, injectors and ect...ect... all pretty expensive things....
__________________ Adam - - Collision/Refinishing Tech
If I was a millionaire I would buy another 6.0 and do all the "fixes" on it, like headstuds, turbo, egr system delete, injectors and ect...ect... all pretty expensive things....
Oh don't worry about it. With the credit crunch as it is, what's one more bill done on credit.
The problem is, and I'm not defending Ford on this by any means, is that it's all figured out based on statistical cost/risk analysis... Whatever they're saving by sticking with the TTY bolts over the studs must be more than what they're paying out on warranty head gasket and bolt replacement claims.
Being in the era of information thanks to the internet though, this approach may prove a little bit short sighted as more and more people join in to the discussion on these types of forums before making a purchase decision... The apparent fact is though it's still such a small percentage of truck owners at present that it's not enough to get Ford's attention or impact their decisions... and it's AMAZING how many blank looks I've gotten from other 6.0 owners when I try to strike up a conversation about the potential TTY bolt / head gasket issue with these trucks; there's a lot of owner's driving these trucks that don't have a clue on the matter.
The best thing you can do at present if you drive a Ford is to find a good, reliable, local Ford service garage and build a relationship with them... my local Ford garage is one of the contributing reasons that I own a Ford -- they're the best I've ever dealt with anywhere.
A few things:
1. Care to share the name of this Ford garage? I hope it's in metro Atlanta.
2. As far as I can tell, the 6.0, for Navistar's purposes (i.e., 100 fewer horsepower) doesn't have near the stretched head bolt problem that Ford's souped up version does. And perhaps Ford didn't test long enough for this to show up as a problem.
3. I don't understand people who will buy such an expensive machine and remain clueless regarding it's maintenance and upkeep. Ignorance is bliss to some. I'm not a tech by any means but I know the basics because it saves me time and money. I also like to think that if my truck does have a major problem (knock on wood) then I know enough to call BS on some know-nothing service advisor trying to feed me a line of crapola, especially now that my warranty is up.
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2003 F250 CC LB 4x4, 6.0 with auto
A few things:
1. Care to share the name of this Ford garage? I hope it's in metro Atlanta.
2. As far as I can tell, the 6.0, for Navistar's purposes (i.e., 100 fewer horsepower) doesn't have near the stretched head bolt problem that Ford's souped up version does. And perhaps Ford didn't test long enough for this to show up as a problem.
3. I don't understand people who will buy such an expensive machine and remain clueless regarding it's maintenance and upkeep. Ignorance is bliss to some. I'm not a tech by any means but I know the basics because it saves me time and money. I also like to think that if my truck does have a major problem (knock on wood) then I know enough to call BS on some know-nothing service advisor trying to feed me a line of crapola, especially now that my warranty is up.
Navistars vt365 had minor to none problems:
It was run long and hard, reducing soot,
and yes, the headbolts may have been on the weak side for fords version.
__________________ 2002 7.3 PSD 4x4 Nothing out of the ordinary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6686L
I nominate this Parkland guy for President. He KNOWS what is important, has his priorities straight. I mean...if...we are going to have a "pair of boobs in the White House"...at least with Parkland running the place...there will be some that are good to look at...!
__________________
Powerstroking Seven T444Es, one VT365 and one 6.0. Also four DT466s, one DT360 and a Mercedes MBE906.
I'm doing my part to reduce food imports, control rising food costs and help feed the children, my trucks run on 100% petroleum diesel. What are you doing?
A few things:
1. Care to share the name of this Ford garage? I hope it's in metro Atlanta.
2. As far as I can tell, the 6.0, for Navistar's purposes (i.e., 100 fewer horsepower) doesn't have near the stretched head bolt problem that Ford's souped up version does. And perhaps Ford didn't test long enough for this to show up as a problem.
3. I don't understand people who will buy such an expensive machine and remain clueless regarding it's maintenance and upkeep. Ignorance is bliss to some. I'm not a tech by any means but I know the basics because it saves me time and money. I also like to think that if my truck does have a major problem (knock on wood) then I know enough to call BS on some know-nothing service advisor trying to feed me a line of crapola, especially now that my warranty is up.
The only item that really requested a response from me is the first one. The name of the garage I go to is Sondalle Ford in Berlin, Wisconsin. Small town dealership/garage that truly cares about the customer. First point of contact is the head service writer, Ken. Steve Sondalle is a fantastic, and approachable owner. I have only good things to say about them. They've been there for me when I've needed them. Sondalle Ford is the #1 reason I drive a Ford.
I've also heard great things about Wenzel Ford in nearby Winneconne, Wisconsin, though I haven't dealt with them personally.
As for 'people buying expensive machines and remaining clueless about it's maintenance and upkeep,' I hear you on that one... I don't get it either. But surprisingly it's more the norm than the exception.
The common sense that eludes many: Take care of your expensive machine and it will take care of you. Fortunately, this forum is a collection of individuals that seem to understand and practice this principle.
Mabye i should'nt of said anything, I know very few people with a vt365, but none of them have had any trouble. I also remember reading an article a while back where international basically asked ford, "How come you have 200% more warranty claims than we do for the same engine?"
I'm not a 6.0 expert...
__________________ 2002 7.3 PSD 4x4 Nothing out of the ordinary.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6686L
I nominate this Parkland guy for President. He KNOWS what is important, has his priorities straight. I mean...if...we are going to have a "pair of boobs in the White House"...at least with Parkland running the place...there will be some that are good to look at...!
and yes, the headbolts may have been on the weak side for fords version.
Many people on here have said the 365 has the same problems that the 6.0 does. Maybe to a lesser extent, but they too blew head gaskets, burnt injectors and had turbo failures
__________________
- Ian
1987 Ford Ranger XLT 4x4 2.9
Needs a lot of work, including some rot on the body, but shes getting there.
We have had such good luck with our 2004 6.0 that we bought a 2008 bus with a VT365.
__________________
Powerstroking Seven T444Es, one VT365 and one 6.0. Also four DT466s, one DT360 and a Mercedes MBE906.
I'm doing my part to reduce food imports, control rising food costs and help feed the children, my trucks run on 100% petroleum diesel. What are you doing?
I have a 2003 F-450 I had to have the turbo replaced I think because the truck sat for awhile. The truck only had 34000 miles on it. Plus the truck went through the years with the higher sulphur fuel so a turbo replacement was in order. I knew what I may get into buying a 6.0.
Its too hard to find a decent used truck anymore any 99-02 F-450 trucks are worn out. You can spend thousands rebuilding the brakes the suspension etc.
Then you have a thing called rust and once the cab of the truck has orange cancer its going to spread. The frame gets rusted and your dealing with brake lines rusting out.
As for the 6.0 I like the power it seems like the truck runs better with a load on it than empty. I had a 1200lb load of construction debris on the truck yesterday it smoothed out the ride and the truck seems to run better.
The truck weighed 11,000lbs with only 1200lbs on the truck because the truck is heavy empty.
I have had a 7.3 PSD the 6.0 runs circles around it.
2002 7.3 PSD 4x4 Nothing out of the ordinary.
many would disagree.
