When are we going to see this F150 Hydraulic Hybrid make it to market? Or at least a kit to convert our gas guzzlers into something more powerful and efficient! Love my truck but if I can get 60 miles per gallon out of this beast, I am on it. The truck is past prototype mode and there are some being driven already by ford engineers. The kinks are few and far between. Who is controlling the stop button on this one? The EPA already has several UPS trucks and City Refuse trucks using this bright idea in NY. I understand that some Ford certified mechanics are already certified to work on Hydraulics Hybrids but where are they? Is ford waiting for gas to reach $6 dollars per gallon. If ford wants to be trend setters in the auto world, for god sakes kick this project into high gear. I will convince my mercedes driving mother to buy one.
Believe it or not, there's no central conspiracy of the man holding you down. There's not one company that's hiding the 100mpg carburator from you... But I'll agree with you in that the EPA can get down right stupid sometimes (especially when it comes to dizzles)
On the HLA (hydraulic launch assist) equipped F150 it simply was too expensive to offer in the F150; and simply not gonna happen yet. the decision was however made before the recent gas prices, so who knows if it'll be revisited or not.
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2000 Excursion Limited 4x4 V10 - soon to not be stock anymore.
2004 F150 XLT screw 4x4 5.4 - 2.5 leveling kit, 34.5" BFGs - Gone
2004 mach1 mustang, holding the garage floor in place.
Believe it or not, there's no central conspiracy of the man holding you down. There's not one company that's hiding the 100mpg carburator from you... But I'll agree with you in that the EPA can get down right stupid sometimes (especially when it comes to dizzles)
On the HLA (hydraulic launch assist) equipped F150 it simply was too expensive to offer in the F150; and simply not gonna happen yet. the decision was however made before the recent gas prices, so who knows if it'll be revisited or not.
I'm having a tough time understanding how the technology could be so expensive for the F-150. The powertrains in the F-150 and Expy are in my opinion the most widely used and mass produced powertrains in the world. FMC could spread this cost over millions of vehicles for years to come. I'll never be convinced that someone or some larger entity isn't simply holding back the reins of alternate fuel powered vehicles.
Tim
__________________ SCPO United States Coast Guard Retired Country Boy from Stockton Springs, Maine '04 Expedition ( Family Car) '99 Taurus. Former family car '88 F-150 4x4 XLT Lariat 5.8L 5Spd '90 Honda Civic (daughter's car) 37 mpg
HLA Was designed with the Superduty in mind because of the weight of the truck and it's load .It caputues energy and stores it for a short period of time. I heard they gave up on it , but with gas prices as they are it could be back on.
Fsrom my little bit of research, the system is called HLA (Hydraulic Launch Assist). The energy from braking is stored and then used to assist the engine to get the vehicle back up to speed. It provides a lot of extra power but for a short period of time. It works best on large heavy vehicles (buses, garbage trucks, etc) that do a lot of stop and go driving. I think the city fuel savings are in the neighborhood of 25-30%. The tests with smaller vehicles got much better results because the large conventional engine was replaced by a very small diesel. High fuel mileage might be possible in vehicles that don't carry heavy loads and in city conditions. Much like electric hybrids, I don't think it would save much if anything used on a vehicle that carries or pulls heavy loads over distances.
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2004 XLT Regular Cab, Short Bed, 4X4 with 5.4 and 3.73.
"Or at least a kit to convert our gas guzzlers into something more powerful and efficient!"
Kits are a fun idea, but trucks are disposable compared to the effort required for a total, properly integrated driveline replacement. Saving an old shell just isn't economical or a sane business model.
"I'll never be convinced that someone or some larger entity isn't simply holding back the reins of alternate fuel powered vehicles."
Then don't be convinced. Your technology background that supports your "larger entity" theory should allow you to build the simple solutions to our energy problems and disperse them irrevocably on the internet under the Creative Commons license.
World shares data (which cannot be contained once released, note the example of Linux) and we can all drive land yachts forever.
"Some type of "Kit" is in our future 100% ,Just like crate engines.
Some people (maybe alot) will want to keep the old look with new tecnology."
Only AFTER the tech is proven and widely adopted, or the economies of scale issue will kill it as a business model.
Saving old junkers will always be a niche market because vehicle hulls are not very expensive. The only folks who do zero-time wheeled vehicle overhaul coupled with powerpack replacement on a mass basis are military depots or contractors that service AFVs, trucks, and specialty vehicles. Consumer vehicles already go to the shredder with modest damage that costs less than a new powertrain and the labor to install it.
[quote=monckywrench;6277218]"I'll never be convinced that someone or some larger entity isn't simply holding back the reins of alternate fuel powered vehicles."
Then don't be convinced. Your technology background that supports your "larger entity" theory should allow you to build the simple solutions to our energy problems and disperse them irrevocably on the internet under the Creative Commons license.
I'm not a scientist, simply a consumer hoping a better answer. With that said, I don't have a "theory", simply an opinion. There is a thin line between the two, look it up.
Tim
__________________ SCPO United States Coast Guard Retired Country Boy from Stockton Springs, Maine '04 Expedition ( Family Car) '99 Taurus. Former family car '88 F-150 4x4 XLT Lariat 5.8L 5Spd '90 Honda Civic (daughter's car) 37 mpg
Wow! I didn't expect much in the way of responses on this one. Anyway, I have someone looking into this kit type project here on the west coast of Florida. He currrently converts Ford Ranger p/u into 100% electric with great results. He wants 12k to do the conversion.
California Polytech Built a Ford Explorer with this technology. I believe they are also keeping this project under the radar .This Explorer kicks out a total of 1000hp to all wheels with great gas mileage.
I hope this thread sparks someones interest in continuing this bright idea of hybrid technology whether it be marine application or auto. I know it will take off.
Well the first part about the ranger makes sense. But honestly even at 5$/gal. It doesn't make sense to pay this money to convert the ranger. Thats assuming 100% reliability, which is very unrealistic. Get a cheap 4 cylinder ranger and it would take dozens of years to recover the cost of a 12k conversion to electric. Also you have to factor in the cost of electricity.
Nobody disputes this kind of technology exsists, just that it isn't economically viable.
The second part sounds like typical urban legend stuff that we, as engineers always hear. 1000hp with great fuel economy. That power isn't free, so i doubt it using your standard gas/electric hybrid set up. How much does this cost? Again I don't doubt its possible, but how viable is that solution.
Don't worry, there are plenty of scientists and engineers working on this stuff. But most that are "in the know" agree that hybrids are a stepping stone. They are only to fill the void between gasoline motors and a cleaner alternative energy source.
Well the first part about the ranger makes sense. But honestly even at 5$/gal. It doesn't make sense to pay this money to convert the ranger. Thats assuming 100% reliability, which is very unrealistic. Get a cheap 4 cylinder ranger and it would take dozens of years to recover the cost of a 12k conversion to electric. Also you have to factor in the cost of electricity.
Nobody disputes this kind of technology exsists, just that it isn't economically viable.
The second part sounds like typical urban legend stuff that we, as engineers always hear. 1000hp with great fuel economy. That power isn't free, so i doubt it using your standard gas/electric hybrid set up. How much does this cost? Again I don't doubt its possible, but how viable is that solution.
Don't worry, there are plenty of scientists and engineers working on this stuff. But most that are "in the know" agree that hybrids are a stepping stone. They are only to fill the void between gasoline motors and a cleaner alternative energy source.
hehe, agreed on the 1000hp part; though I have seen a one-off like that, that made the prius look like a gas hog...
640hp awd mini cooper, 90mpg (it has a small internal combustion engine producing electricity).
What gets me about hybrids is they make em as complicated as can be, combining 2 engines with some of the most complicated transmissions out there so that they can drive the wheels in the same old fashion... locomotives/trains have been technically hybrids for a long time now; diesel engine powering a generator, that powers the electric motors that move the train... no funky transmission involved, no nada. That's pretty much how that mini is and would definitely be interesting to see that in a production car...
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2000 Excursion Limited 4x4 V10 - soon to not be stock anymore.
2004 F150 XLT screw 4x4 5.4 - 2.5 leveling kit, 34.5" BFGs - Gone
2004 mach1 mustang, holding the garage floor in place.
A diesel-electric locomotive that runs only on diesel is not really a hybrid.
If it is equipped to pull power from overhead wires when available, then run on the diesel otherwise, I'd say it qualifies.
Otherwise, the "electric" part of a diesel-electric is merely a transmission device to take the power from the engine and apply it in a smooth, controllable way to the wheels.
As for the hydraulic assit, I just don't see that as worth a hoot for anything other than stop & go designed vehicles, as mentioned earlier. You would carry that stuff all the time for benefit only at take off? Cost you more in gas than it would save.
A diesel-electric locomotive that runs only on diesel is not really a hybrid.
If it is equipped to pull power from overhead wires when available, then run on the diesel otherwise, I'd say it qualifies.
Otherwise, the "electric" part of a diesel-electric is merely a transmission device to take the power from the engine and apply it in a smooth, controllable way to the wheels.
As for the hydraulic assit, I just don't see that as worth a hoot for anything other than stop & go designed vehicles, as mentioned earlier. You would carry that stuff all the time for benefit only at take off? Cost you more in gas than it would save.
You can argue what a hybrid is, but fine, don't call it a hybrid. but gimme a car or truck that runs the same way, like that mini, and i'll be happy. they're much more efficient than the 2 engines one transmission bs they call hybrids nowadays. Considering those electric motors make max torque at 1 rpm, they should be ideal for a truck a lot of the efficiency of the diesel electric locomotives is basically coming from the engine working at it's peak efficiency level all the time, or not at all. excess energy is stored and not wasted (like it is with a typical gas engine sitting at a stop light).
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2000 Excursion Limited 4x4 V10 - soon to not be stock anymore.
2004 F150 XLT screw 4x4 5.4 - 2.5 leveling kit, 34.5" BFGs - Gone
2004 mach1 mustang, holding the garage floor in place.
a lot of the efficiency of the diesel electric locomotives is basically coming from the engine working at it's peak efficiency level all the time, or not at all. excess energy is stored and not wasted (like it is with a typical gas engine sitting at a stop light).
