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  #1  
Old 06-05-2008, 08:42 PM
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Question Veggie Oil Analysis (Blackstone Lab)

I bought four 55 gal drums of new "off food spec" soy oil. I was told by the veggie oil distributer that the oil is considers off spec non food grade because it has past its expiration date but is still great oil to use in my converted diesel. I took a sample of each drum (1,2,3,4) and sent the oil to Blackstone Laboratories to have them do an analysis. This is the first time I have ever sampled veggie oil. The reason for me getting these samples is because I filled up my converted 85 mercedes turbo diesel with oil from drum #4 and my engine blew after 15 miles. Long story short bearings, seals, and extreme blow-by caused it to seize and forced me to get a new "used" engine. Now I am scared to use any of this oil. I know for a fact that there is some extremely wrong with sample 4. It looks kind of milky clear in color (not hydrogenated looking) and smells like vinegar. All the other drums look like regular golden soy color except for #4. I'm not sure if the guy made a mistake and gave me a drum of something else used for cooking instead of veggie oil by mistake. What do you think of these Veggie Oil Analysis'? Blackstone recommends not using any of this oil and is worried about the high Potassium and Phosphorus in samples 1,2,&3. The only thing weird about sample 4 (the one that broke my engine) is .1% water with no trace of metals. Are there any other labs or test I could do to find out whats wrong with #4? The guy that sold the oil said he would reimburse for damages if I got it tested and the test proved it was bad oil. I want to get my 3k back I spent on a used engine for this car. I also really want to convert my powerstroke but and very worried about messing up my truck so I converted my old mercedes first to see how it worked. FYI car was running/maintained perfectly and been running one filtered WVO for a year no problems.

Really appreciate any help and I can email the .pdf's if that would make it easier to read.

THANKS
Sample 1
IRON....................... 15
LEAD........................ 3
TIN.......................... 1
POTASSIUM.............. 18
BORON..................... 4
SODIUM.................... 4
CALCIUM................... 5
MAGNESIUM.............. 6
PHOSPHORUS............ 81
ZINC........................ 1

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F..... 49.9
cSt Viscosity @ 100 C...... 7.24
Flashpoint in F................ 565

Sample 2
IRON........................ 1
LEAD........................ 1
POTASSIUM............... 143
BORON..................... 3
SODIUM.................... 8
CALCIUM................... 14
MAGNESIUM............... 28
PHOSPHORUS............. 392
ZINC......................... 1

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F..... 37.8
cSt Viscosity @ 100 C...... 3.48
Flashpoint in F................ 370

Sample 3
IRON......................... 5
POTASSIUM................ 25
BORON...................... 1
SODIUM.................... 16
CALCIUM................... 2
MAGNESIUM.............. 4
PHOSPHORUS............ 60
ZINC........................ 2

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F..... 36.9
cSt Viscosity @ 100 C....... 3.2
Flashpoint in F................ 345

Sample 4
Metals ALL ZERO

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F..... 36.5
cSt Viscosity @ 100 C........ 3.1
Flashpoint in F................. 370
Water % .........................0.1
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  #2  
Old 06-05-2008, 09:50 PM
willbd willbd is offline
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THANKS
Sample 1
IRON....................... 15
LEAD........................ 3
TIN.......................... 1
POTASSIUM.............. 18
BORON..................... 4
SODIUM.................... 4
CALCIUM................... 5
MAGNESIUM.............. 6
PHOSPHORUS............ 81
ZINC........................ 1

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F..... 49.9
cSt Viscosity @ 100 C...... 7.24
Flashpoint in F................ 565

Sample 2
IRON........................ 1
LEAD........................ 1
POTASSIUM............... 143
BORON..................... 3
SODIUM.................... 8
CALCIUM................... 14
MAGNESIUM............... 28
PHOSPHORUS............. 392
ZINC......................... 1

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F..... 37.8
cSt Viscosity @ 100 C...... 3.48
Flashpoint in F................ 370

Sample 3
IRON......................... 5
POTASSIUM................ 25
BORON...................... 1
SODIUM.................... 16
CALCIUM................... 2
MAGNESIUM.............. 4
PHOSPHORUS............ 60
ZINC........................ 2

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F..... 36.9
cSt Viscosity @ 100 C....... 3.2
Flashpoint in F................ 345

Sample 4
Metals ALL ZERO

SUS Viscosity @ 210 F..... 36.5
cSt Viscosity @ 100 C........ 3.1
Flashpoint in F................. 370
Water % .........................0.1[/QUOTE]

It looks like there is an issue with this oil. Why are the flash point so low sample 2,3 & 4 and Lead in sample 1&2. The flash point for veggie oil should be about 600 F.
I have heard that some new veggie oil can have hi water content.

This could be caused by sparging. In the processing of edible oils, the oil is heated under vacuum to near the smoke point, and water is introduced at the bottom of the oil. The water immediately is converted to steam, which bubbles through the oil, carrying with it any chemicals which are water-soluble. The steam sparging removes impurities that can impart unwanted flavors and odors to the oil.

Let us know how it turns out.


Read the liks below.
Cooking oil
Vegetable fats and oils - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Last edited by willbd; 06-05-2008 at 09:51 PM. Reason: add a link
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:06 PM
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thanks that it very interesting. as you can see i don't know what to think. it seems like there are so many variables. i really want to figure out whats wrong with sample #4. i talked to the scientist, guy that did the tests, at Blackstone and he was super helpful but didn't know how to test this mystery liquid in a way to figure out exactly what it was or better yet wasn't. i truly don't even know if its oil.
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Old 06-07-2008, 02:27 PM
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bump.
& back to the top it goes
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Old 06-07-2008, 10:55 PM
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Wow that sucks, hope you do or did get reimbursed.
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Old 06-08-2008, 08:00 AM
Diesile Diesile is offline
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That flashpt. indeed looks suspicious.
Any chance the engine failure was going to happen making the event a coincidence??
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:12 PM
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Even if the oil is complete junk it should not cause seized bearings and excessive blow by. Even getting a slug of pure water wouldn't cause engine failure. Injectors and IP failure yes but not piston and bearing damage.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjbeggs View Post
Even if the oil is complete junk it should not cause seized bearings and excessive blow by. Even getting a slug of pure water wouldn't cause engine failure. Injectors and IP failure yes but not piston and bearing damage.
I agree with the no engine damage if it was water. The seized bearings donít should like a fuel related problem. The only thing we know is veggie oil has a flash point around 600 F and the oil sample sent to Black stone has a flash point of 345 F. If the sample that was tested and the test are correct than we know that the oil was not all veggie oil. What we donít know is what was in the drum to make the flash point so low.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:55 PM
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i understand what you guys are saying and now that i think about it i remember the mechanic saying something about the IP aswell. i really don't know much about how engines work so i am basically relying on what the mech says.
the flash point is proof that this is not veggie oil. but how else can i test this stuff? i was hoping Blackstone could find out but after talking to them on the phone they just find out whats in it not what it is.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesile View Post
That flashpt. indeed looks suspicious.
Any chance the engine failure was going to happen making the event a coincidence??
this car was running perfectly fine, actually really good before this fiasco went down. thats why i don't believe it was just a coincedence and ether does the mechanic.
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Old 06-14-2008, 05:03 AM
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The engine was most likely worn out and ready to blow, it just decided to do it with that fuel? Or did you use it as the lubricating oil?????????? If the last is the case then yeah it probably caused it.
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by icrman View Post
The engine was most likely worn out and ready to blow, it just decided to do it with that fuel?
anything is possible but this engine only had 175k, which is nothing for a inline 5 cylinder mercedes, and had been running perfectly and maintained well.

Quote:
Or did you use it as the lubricating oil?????????? If the last is the case then yeah it probably caused it.
haha! no i did not try to use veggie instead of motor oil.
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Old 06-14-2008, 11:30 PM
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Any updates on your situation?
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Old 06-15-2008, 12:13 AM
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not much. i have been trying to locate a lab that can test this "oil" and let me know what it really is. my grandpa was a microbiologist so i am going to ask him if he has any ideas when i see him tomorrow for Fathers Day. if anyone has an idea of a place i can send a sample i would really appreciate it. i will keep you guys updated.
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:53 PM
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I am planning on setting my 6.0 for WVO with DINOFUELS vegiestroke system. I think your Idea of buying the expired oil was a stroke of brillance, but you delema has me concerned. Sorry I do not have any helpful info but wanted to tag on to find out how this gets resolved..besides was getting yelled at for not posting in two weeks...
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Old 06-24-2008, 05:53 PM
 
 
 
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