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Old 05-28-2008, 01:05 PM
bsaastad bsaastad is offline
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Unhappy Oil pump drive shaft fell out

I was lifting out the distributer on a FE 360 and, to my horror, the oil pump drive shaft started to come out with it -- until it let go and fell back into the hole. It sounded like it bounced down and landed in the oil pan, if that's possible. The pan is empty at the moment. The last sound was a dull clunk from down low.

Question(s):

1) To get the oil pan off, do you disconnect the front mounts and tilt the engine up with a hoist? I assume you can't get the pan off with the engine mounted???

2) Is there any way to feed the shaft back into the oil pump from the top, or do I have to remove the oil pump and install it from there? Is this an indication that I should just replace the pump/shaft?

3) Why would the shaft come out like that? I've had the distributer in and out a number of times and never had anything like that happen.

4) Anything else that I'm missing because I don't know enough to ask the question?

I've never had the bottom end apart so my only knowledge about what the oil pump looks like is the not-so-good picture in my manual of an installed pump. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:20 PM
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Ok, so, getting the oil pan off without liffting the engine is a pain in the ****. If you can get it off and get te oil pump drive shaft out you can drop it in from the top. In fact I have a shaft in my oil pan know that I haven't bothered to grab cause I had an extra. To do this I recomend a second set of hands to hold a GOOD flashlight for you, an extendable magnet, and a 1/4 inch deep socket with a long extention.

This is an involved process but you can do it.

Have your friend hold the flash light pointing down the hole. Attach the shaft to the magnet and stab it in. Keep trying untill the oil pump rod is settled just below and inside the little hole it has to go through. Then take your 1/4 socket and extentions and turn it and turn it. If its easy to turn your not in the oil pump. (you need to try again) When it becomes harder to turn lift you socket up carefully and see if theres any oil on it. If so you've probably stabbed it correctly. Do Not put the distrubutor back in untill you can fill the oil pan and test the pump. Or else your going to have to do it all over again. If you have the pan off this will be much easier because youll be able to see the oil pump. But once again test it out before you restab the distributor.
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Old 05-28-2008, 01:56 PM
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Thanks, I'll try that. Now, does the top of the shaft protrude through the hole a bit? I'm asking because the end of the magnet I have is just a bit too large to go down through the hole. Well, I guess it must protrude if I can get a 1/4" socket on the end of it -- stupid question. Any advice/tips on how to avoid dropping the new shaft down the hole? Like maybe oiling the top end so the socket can't grab it?
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Old 05-28-2008, 02:14 PM
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If you pulled the pan why are you going through the top ? Install the shaft correctly by removing the pump and placing the tinnerman on the shaft so this doesn't happen again.
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Old 05-28-2008, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmanbob View Post
If you pulled the pan why are you going through the top ? Install the shaft correctly by removing the pump and placing the tinnerman on the shaft so this doesn't happen again.
Very true.

If you are going through the top: The rod should not protrude from that tiny hole infact it should be just inside of it. I would still recomend turning the rod with that socket. If you have a 1/4 DEEP socket it will fit in the hole with the rod.
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Old 05-28-2008, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmanbob View Post
If you pulled the pan why are you going through the top ? Install the shaft correctly by removing the pump and placing the tinnerman on the shaft so this doesn't happen again.
The pan isn't off -- can I get the pan off w/o disconnecting the block from the transmission and just tilt the engine up off of its front mounts? Is there a jack point somewhere that facilitates doing this w/o a hoist? If there's some kind of keeper that will keep the shaft anchored in the oil pump I'm all for the extra effort. I may have to go with the through-the-top method just to get things running, then go back and pull the pan and do it right (of course, this is the vehicle I would use to get a hoist to my house ...)
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:37 PM
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Yes there is a toothed washer (for lack of better term) that installs on the drive shaft so it dosen't pull/fall out.
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Old 05-29-2008, 09:13 AM
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You will want to use a hoist so that you have unrestricted access to the oil pan. If you want to forego some work , and youre pretty sure that the rod is in the bottom of the pan. You can get by with just buying another rod and dropping it in. The one that is in the oil pan won't hurt anything it'll just sit on the bottom. I DO NOT RECOMEND THIS (but i did it). Don't let it stay for long if you do but it will get you back and forth to work for awhile if its your daily driver.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:41 AM
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I was able to get a new shaft installed using a new magnet through the top. That was a scary operation, but it's in place. I was able to run the oil pump with a drill (oil flowed out of the valve ports), then installed the distributer and tested again by cranking the engine w/o the coil/plug wires to make sure everything is engaged properly. Once it's running the plan is to go get a hoist and do the repair properly.

Thanks for all the help!
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:07 PM
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Thumbs up

Good Work. I'm glad to help.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:11 PM
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When I was working as a partsman, Ford mechanics just left that shaft in the oil pan.

It's laying flat in the pan, so it's not going anywhere, so why worry about it?

That inside "star" washer always came on the shaft when the part was bought from Ford.

Ford didn't sell the washer by itself.

B8AZ6A618A .. Oil Pump Driveshaft ~ OBSOLETE

Fits: 1958/76 all FE engines (332/352/390/406/410/427/428).

Fits: 1964/72 330 M/D FT engine.

greensalescompany.com (800-543-4959) has 6 NOS originals.

A qwik look at the Ford dealers parts locater system turned up 10 new ones, from various dealers scattered across the country.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:24 PM
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oil pump shaft

I made certain that my dist shaft had no burrs on it and then I pushed in some anti-seize lube so it didn't grab in the future. The shaft fell years ago in a Windsor engine and it sucked -- but I did it. It was in a big Bronco with all of that cross member and live front axle. I drank a bunch afterwards.
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Old 05-29-2008, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NumberDummy View Post
When I was working as a partsman, Ford mechanics just left that shaft in the oil pan.

It's laying flat in the pan, so it's not going anywhere, so why worry about it?

That inside "star" washer always came on the shaft when the part was bought from Ford.

Ford didn't sell the washer by itself.

B8AZ6A618A .. Oil Pump Driveshaft ~ OBSOLETE

Fits: 1958/76 all FE engines (332/352/390/406/410/427/428).

Fits: 1964/72 330 M/D FT engine.

greensalescompany.com (800-543-4959) has 6 NOS originals.

A qwik look at the Ford dealers parts locater system turned up 10 new ones, from various dealers scattered across the country.
Thats how mine is at this moment. It shouldn't hurt anything.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:43 PM
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Lightbulb

The shaft could be gotten out through the front of the pan by removing the front (timing chain) cover. If it has fallen back you could use a magnet to drag it to the frunt then reach in the pan and pull it out, (removing the first magnet of course first) It would give you a chance to inspect your chain also. Just seems easier than jacking up and removing the pan.
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Old 05-29-2008, 11:43 PM
 
 
 
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