Killin the little man

[cobaum]

This is no different than the housing crisis right now. WE ARE ALL TO BLAME! I am (was) a custom homebuilder and I see everybody blaming everybody else for the housing crisis. Everybody is at fault. The builders, the lenders, the stock market, the government, and YES the home buyers. I know the home buyers are getting it in the end, but they were buying way overpriced homes without the income and thought nothing of it. They just wanted to be part of the huge price appreciation and "Get rich quick." It's a shame. It's going to ruin a lot of people's lives.

On the gas price front, it is very similar. Who's to blame? The oil companies, the government, the auto makers, and YES the consumers. This problem has been predicted for ten years or more and no one has done anything. Detroit is still producing gas-guzzling SUVs because every soccer mom and Nascar dad wants the biggest one on the road. Detroit finally got the message as Toyota has passed them all, but it will take time for them to totally change thier product lines to address this. I find it laughable that the best mileage from a Detroit hybrid is less than the average mileage for cars in China. And now consumers are stuck with these SUVs that will be worthless in a year or so. They have only themselves to blame for that (If you have one, sell it now. Our trucks should always hold some value because there is no viable alternative). Since oil companies are publicly traded, the management has a fiduciary duty to the owners (stockholders) to maximize profit. So, under the current model, you cannot blame them for maximizing profits. If they did not, as a stockholder, I would sue them. So what do you do - Regulate them? Great. Then see what happens to gas prices. The government missed it's opportunity when it should have forced the CAFE standards higher years ago. Instead, government bowed to Detroit and did nothing. Now the auto makers screwed themselves and tens of thousands of auto workers are looking for other jobs.

In one of the other rants, someone stated that the Stooges running for president will do nothing. I do like that Obama went to Detroit and spoke to the UAW and told them that they must raise efficiency standards. Took a lot of guts and was not well received. Same thing on the gas tax holiday - He called it a BS solution which it is. That is why I think he is the best shot right now. McCain used to be a maverick that would say the unpopular if he thought it was right. He has not been doing that lately. Hopefully he will get it back before November. I would love to see two candidates run head-to-head that were willing to do what it takes and not worry about popularity.

And I also had to shut down operations for now and I can feel your pain of letting good people go.

[USAF CCM]

I know why (rhetorical question here). Why do people insist on making a simple issue into a massively complex and seemingly unsolvable problem?

It's simple supply and demand I learned in 7th grade economics class. We created the demand overseas (China & India for more oil) by bringing them into the 20th & 21st centuries; in addition to our own national growth. Whether that's good or bad is a topic for another thread/debate.

It's been estimated there's enough oil in the ground for another 400 years at current global usage. But since the party with the Donkey for a mascot has continually prevented American oil companies from building more refineries and drilling for oil (Congress just did it again yesterday), the actual supply has remained constant while demand here and abroad has risen. What do you expect would happen?

Over the years we've continued to improve how and why we do things. It's always been the private citizen or business' small & large that come up with the solutions. We've been an industrialized nation since just before the turn of the 20th century and we ain't going back. People need to drive to work, not to mention working from a vehicle to keep America moving each day. Think about traveling by plane; how many more people fly to wherever for whatever reason. Do yo know how much fuel a plane uses? I flew in USAF tankers for 22 yrs and my average fuel load was 120,000 lbs (that's 18,750 gals for one flight). Just imagine how much fuel is used each day by civilian and our military's aircraft. Ad to that, fuel used by the nation's 18 wheelers on a daily basis bringing food and goods to stores. Let's just stop all that, okay. America would come to a stand still.

Making SUV's evil because they only get 15 MPG is silly. Many people simply need that type of vehicle to safely and comfortable haul family and whatever else they want. How many of us on this site actually need a Powerstroke truck to do work? I for one, drive my truck because I want to.....it's my birthright as an American. I simply enjoy it.

Blaming "big oil companies" is silly also. Do we live in a communist or socialist society, or do we live in a free market society? Those companies are made up of big AND small investors, including other non-oil companies who have oil stock in their retirement plan portfolios. By law oil companies as does every business, must make as much profit as possible for their stockholders.

Again, in a particular party, they play the "winfall profit" card when it's not the oil companies driving up prices and creating record profits, it's speculators who're able to do so because supply is level and demand is going up.

I'd hate to think what would happen if one of our refineries (do you remember Katrina) suffered a catastrophic accident since the only ones we have are maxed out. Even if OPEC gave free oil we couldn't process it fast enough.

If we don't start drilling for more American oil and building more American refineries now, our kids & grandkids won't able to afford to drive a Powerstroke because diesel will be over $10.00 a gallon.

We must increase supply to go along with our demand. And there's nothing wrong with taking a simple family Sunday afternoon drive in your SUV. If more families did this, we'd all be better off!

[Markadeck]

Les, I ain't gonna quote your post, but it's a great one and I for one am handing out reps for it. You truly understand the problem. Like I said in an earlier post today, if it were lolli pops that were in great demand and there were not enough of them the price is going to do nothing but go up. We have enough oil in the ground right here in the lower 48 to handle all of our needs for a long long time and screw the camel jockey's. But we all know who is stopping us from getting it and that is who HAS TO GO!!

[Markadeck]

I only wish I knew the real reason the party with the donkey wants the US to run out of oil. Their big wigs fly around in private jets, one well know member pays 15k a month in electric bills to run his mansion yet is the perpetrator of the global warming scam. None of it makes any sense to me.

[cobaum]

[quote=USAF CCM;6157666]I know why (rhetorical question here). Why do people insist on making a simple issue into a massively complex and seemingly unsolvable problem?

I fully agree with that statement. That was a big part of my point - everyone has a hand in this. I also agree that everyone has a right to drive whatever they please. But - here's the complex part - they do not have a right to cheap gas to fill it. I drive a Super Duty because my job requires it. Now that I am taking a building hiatus because of the housing crisis, it sits in the driveway a lot. I drive my motorcycle much more often because it gets 55 MPG. I have the right to drive my PSD, but I choose to spend my money on things other than diesel. To blame the Dems specifically is naive. I'm not sure where the information on 400 years of gas in the US came from, but I would like to get a link to it. I like to stay informed and this information directly contradicts the information I have read. If you have a link please post it. Thanks.

[Batgeek]

The greenies are idiots. Their goal is not to protect the environment, but to destroy our economy. Where the hell do they think oil comes from? It is a completely organic product. Modern drilling technology has been proven safe many times. With all the rigs that were destroyed in 2005 in the gulf there were no spills. Allowing drilling in the gulf is a win win deal. The government gets to lease drilling rights to the oil companies for big bucks, we get the prices down, and the camel jockeys don’t get our money. Why can’t the donkeys in Washington see this? When Bush proposed that they allow more drilling in the Gulf they said that was policies of the past and won’t work. What do they mean by that?
fficeffice" /> > >
If this keeps going the way its going I’m going to have to trade my truck in for a bicycle and a spot under the bridge.

Sorry for the rant.

[HKusp]

Detroit is still producing gas-guzzling SUVs because every soccer mom and Nascar dad wants the biggest one on the road.

Thats because this is a country that allows and promotes9for the most part) individuality and free will. ( a certain political party that is looking more and more like the socialist party excluded from the former statement)

I find it laughable that the best mileage from a Detroit hybrid is less than the average mileage for cars in China.

Thats because the Chinese cars are pieces of garbage. They don't have the emissions standards the US does, they don't have the vehicle safety standards the US does, the average consumer there couldn't afford a larger car or even a car at all, hell they don't have the infrastructure with regards to roads and traffic control to have a lot of large vehicles running around anyway.

I doubt that is the case. People are still going to be willing to pay a few dollars more a day in order to keep their families safe when traveling. Nice "the sky is falling" rhetoric there.

I do like that Obama went to Detroit and spoke to the UAW and told them that they must raise efficiency standards. Took a lot of guts and was not well received. Same thing on the gas tax holiday - He called it a BS solution which it is. That is why I think he is the best shot right now.

Stop looking at and listening to the words he says and look at his voting record in the senate(as small and unimpressive as that is) as well as his record in the Illinois state senate before he became a national figure. The guy is a socialist with a horrible foreign policy, that if he becomes president, will be laughed at for decades if he doesn't get the majority of us killed by terrorists first.

McCain used to be a maverick that would say the unpopular if he thought it was right. He has not been doing that lately. Hopefully he will get it back before November.

McCain is almost a democrat. If you want to call him a Maverick, you would be right. That term when used politically means that he doesn't do what is right and what his party wants, he does what the media will hail as maverick behavior and go against the grain. He "reaches across the isle" and makes deals with the democrats in order to get media attention and to be liked better, not because it's the will of the people or party that elected him.

I would love to see two candidates run head-to-head that were willing to do what it takes and not worry about popularity.

I have news for you, they ARE running a popularity contest. Thats what elections are.

[USAF CCM]

cobaum,

You said: "But - here's the complex part - they do not have a right to cheap gas to fill it."

Says who? The current price is totally inflated and has absolutely nothing to do with exploration, capture, production and delivery of fuel.

You said: "To blame the Dems specifically is naive."

Says who? It's a documented fact the Democratic party members in Congress just voted down another request to start more drilling and have consistently refused to listen to President Bush and allow new refineries to be built. This all listed in the Congressional Record. Just call you US Senators and ask how they voted.

Unfortunately, in Illinois, Chicagoland controls the state which is why Durbin and Obama are even in the Senate. Of course they voted NO! Below Chicago and the lower rural blue collar part of Illinois is conservative.

What other product producer is prevented from producing more by government in this country if the demand is there? None; we even pay farmers not to produce!

The 400 yrs was from an educational TV show specifically about oil. I will try to find a link to such data, but you could google just as well as me. You used to hear that we were running out of oil a just few years ago. Not one peep of that now because the liberals know it's not true.

Nice post HKusp and love that Avatar!

Don't want to get in a flame war here. But too many times conservative guys like me have just smiled and sat by when things are said that just don't fly! We get to have our say too!

[aklim]

Here's the deal. To predict how long you have, you MUST know how much you consume and how much there is. How do you predict what you will consume 2 yrs from now? Well, make a SWAG. However, for the sake of argument, lets say your prediction is correct, what else do you need to know? How much oil you have. Here is the $20000 question. How do you KNOW that? If I spend $100 a day and I KNOW I have 10000, I can say that in 100 days, I will be broke. However, If you don't know what I will spend tomorrow, all you can say is that based on past history, we think you will spend $100 a day. Fine. How do you calculate if you don't KNOW how much money I have?

[HKusp]

Something that you may not have seen before, but a guy named Dr. Gold has an interesting theory regarding crude. He believes, as do I, that crude is a byproduct of the Earth's mantle and is a renewable energy source.

What????
Thats right. I said a renewable energy source that is a byproduct of the Earths everyday actions beneath the surface.

Read an article about it here.

[Markadeck]

Originally Posted by HKusp

Something that you may not have seen before, but a guy named Dr. Gold has an interesting theory regarding crude. He believes, as do I, that crude is a byproduct of the Earth's mantle and is a renewable energy source.

What????
Thats right. I said a renewable energy source that is a byproduct of the Earths everyday actions beneath the surface.

Read an article about it here.

I did not read the article, but I don't think I've ever bought the theory that all this oil we've been gobbling up is the result of animal remains. I guess it goes back to my entire of life of living by common sense. Just think about it? But I have heard more and more of this lately. If everyone in the country would get a Sirius radio and listen to channel 144 for 6 months and pay attention to what they're listening to, this could be a whole lot nicer place to live. Be like going back to the 50's.

[empiretc]

Originally Posted by cobaum

To blame the Dems specifically is naive. I'm not sure where the information on 400 years of gas in the US came from, but I would like to get a link to it. I like to stay informed and this information directly contradicts the information I have read. If you have a link please post it. Thanks.

I READ it on the INTERNET so it has to be TRUE .
there are other places for information than the web.

I just had an argument with someone telling me the gas prices are all part the the 911 conspiracy.

[Markadeck]

Originally Posted by empiretc

I READ it on the INTERNET so it has to be TRUE .
there are other places for information than the web.

I just had an argument with someone telling me the gas prices are all part the the 911 conspiracy.

I don't know what to think of the 911 conspiracy theory and damn sure ain't gonna argue with anyone about it. But it brings to mind, "Birds of a Feather", maybe they've figured out there are more ways to kill us than fly our planes into our buildings.

[justblowin'smoke]

i've heard many reasons as to why the fuel prices are so high, don't know that there is one reason the answers the question. i do know that at the current rate there are trucking companies barely holding on, fuels prices have pretty much killed the owner operator, farmers are hurting because of the fuel prices(one i work for just paid $3.96 for off road)
it looks like the only thing that is going to make people pay attention is when they go to the store and can't buy whatever because the trucking companies went under and the farmer can't afford to plant and feed livestock

something has to be done where it is bio-diesel, e-85, drill more oil wells, hybrids, more refineries something needs to be done

[aklim]

Originally Posted by justblowin'smoke

something has to be done where it is bio-diesel, e-85, drill more oil wells, hybrids, more refineries something needs to be done

I hope nothing gets done. Remember E85? See the mess they made? I wouldn't want them to try again. Fuel will probably be $6 a gallon and you can't get it anywheres after they get done.