Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > Bio-diesel, Propane & Alternative Diesel Engine Fuels
Sign in using an external account
Register Forgot Password?


Welcome to Ford-Trucks Forums!
Welcome to Ford-Trucks.com.

You are currently viewing our forums as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join the Ford-Trucks Forums community today!





 
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 09:48 AM
travisg96 travisg96 is offline
Junior User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 79
travisg96 is starting off with a positive reputation.
Question Oil prices

With crude being $120+ a barrel how does the price of Vegetable.(soy, canola, corn, I am not being specific here). I mean at some point it has to be cheaper to make biodiesel out of new oil than it is to make diesel out of crude. Anyway, are there processors that you can get that just go from start to finish without having to move the product from barrel to barrel? I have a coworker who keeps telling me about some machine he saw where you just have to add oil, lye and methanol and it does all the work for you.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 10:47 AM
TXHillCountry's Avatar
TXHillCountry TXHillCountry is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 807
TXHillCountry is starting off with a positive reputation.
The answer to your first question is maybe. Don't mean to sound facetious but the issue with the price of biomass feedstocks like corn and soybeans is that their price is being pushed up by the demand for alternative fuels (corn for ethanol and soybeans for biodiesel). And right now the price of the biomass feedstocks seems to be outpacing the price of crude. So commercially produced biodiesel is still more expensive than petroluem biodiesel, and the ethanol fuels are still more expensive than petroleum gases.

The answer to your second question is yes, there are "one-stop-shop" all-in-one production units for biodiesel, but for the automation, you pay the price.

A good example are the BioPro processors, like the Biopro 150, 380, etc. There is some info on them at: Utah Biodiesel Supply - Biodiesel Homebrewing Supplies, Equipment, Processors and Information

But be ready for sticker shock compared to the "somewhat" more manual units like FuelMeister, etc.
__________________

2003 F250 6.0 PSD FX4 King Ranch Crew Cab Shortbed -> STOLEN, STRIPPED, TOTALED
Banks Six Gun with PDA Banks Monster Exhaust Banks Intake EGR Delete Kit ARP Headstuds 2005 Grille 305/70/16 BFGoodrich ATKO tires Westin Bull Nose with 6" KC Slimlights ICON Vehicle Dynamics Leveling Kit
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 10:54 AM
cmpd1781's Avatar
cmpd1781 cmpd1781 is offline
Taxpayer Subsidized
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 19,000
cmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputationcmpd1781 has a superb reputation
If you're speaking of 'new' vegetable oil---like what you get from a grocery store or even a wholesale place like Costco, I would say 'no'.....Paid about $7.00 for 1/2 gallon of canola (I'm sure some places are a little cheaper), so do the math. Peanut oil is even more expensive.

I know most of the bio guys here score used oil from restaurants and such, so they pay little if anything for theirs. But they still need the equipment and the chemicals for the process.

Hey, TexHillCtry....What's it come out to per gallon now if you do it that way? Something just under $1.00/gallon or something?
__________________
Steve

"The first panacea for a mismanaged nation is inflation of the currency; the second is war. Both bring a temporary prosperity; both bring a permanent ruin. But both are the refuge of political and economic opportunists." (Ernest Hemingway)
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-12-2008, 11:44 AM
TXHillCountry's Avatar
TXHillCountry TXHillCountry is offline
Elder User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 807
TXHillCountry is starting off with a positive reputation.
Hey cmpd, you're absolutely right on the new versus used oil. His question was how does using new oil compare to using crude oil.

For the home-brew guys, the return on investment can be pretty significant.

If you figure in the cost of acquiring the used VO (transporting it, is it free or does the restaurant want something for it), plus the cost of methanol and catalyst (like lye), yeah, you're roughly (and I do mean roughly) around a buck a gallon for the finished product.

But like you also mentioned, don't forget the sunk cost into the equipment. If you're a real DIY'er, you can put together a system for a few hundred dollars. But a decent kit will run you around $3K or more, so you have to figure in the return on that.

I ran some numbers a while back for a $4k system, splitting the acquisition cost between four guys at $1k each. I used the price of dino-diesel at $4 per gallon and the cost of producing a bioD gallon at about $1.

For each guy to break even, each guy would have to produce about 325 gallons of BioD, and then after that it was gravy. If the price of dino diesel keeps going up, then that return is a little sooner.

I figure on a long-bed Superduty, that's about 10 fill-ups.

So if you can get a group together, AND have a decent, on-going supply of waste VO, it's very attractive.

TX
__________________

2003 F250 6.0 PSD FX4 King Ranch Crew Cab Shortbed -> STOLEN, STRIPPED, TOTALED
Banks Six Gun with PDA Banks Monster Exhaust Banks Intake EGR Delete Kit ARP Headstuds 2005 Grille 305/70/16 BFGoodrich ATKO tires Westin Bull Nose with 6" KC Slimlights ICON Vehicle Dynamics Leveling Kit
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2008, 11:44 AM
Reply

Go Back   Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums > Diesel > Bio-diesel, Propane & Alternative Diesel Engine Fuels

Tags
f250, oil, prices

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:35 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.5.2 ©2010, Crawlability, Inc.
Advertising - Terms of Use - Privacy Statement - Jobs
This forum is owned and operated by Internet Brands, Inc., a Delaware corporation. It is not authorized or endorsed by the Ford Motor Company and is not affiliated with the Ford Motor Company or its related companies in any way. FordŽ is a registered trademark of the Ford Motor Company.

vbulletin Admin Backup