this is my 3rd y-block site im asking help on... my y-block wont start! help PLEASE!
howdy everyone, well ive been workin on my 1958 ford fairlane now since january (yes, fairlane, not a pickup or truck or anything), and i swapped the 223 inline 6 for a 292 v8 that came out of a 58 ford pickup.
now we finally have it in there, bolted in, everything set up just about... and yet, it wont start!
we turn the key, and it cranks, but it doesnt sound like it catches or anything, it doesnt sound like its going to start. all it does is pop and backfire out of the exhaust manifolds!
we have checked literally everything just about. when i say we, i me and my dad, (im 18 and the old man is helpin me out).
the coil is fine, the spark plugs have fire to all of them, he took the number one spark plug out and but his thumb in there and we have compression, we have fuel going to the carb, we have the correct firing order, we checked it about 4 times now. the points are right, the gap between the points is good, we rotated the distributor while trying, timing is right.. we've done it all... ummm... lemme think... ya we checked just about all that we can check pretty much.
i checked back all the way to page 50 last nite trying to see if anyone had the same problem, i read a few and printed them out to show my dad, but i wanted to post this and get some help!!! i have a video, and yes i know we cranked it longer that we should have, dont be mean now, ive gotten stuff from people at jalopy journal :-/
please help me. my dad thinks its the carb float, but gas is getting to the carb? *bare in mind in not that smart at cars so im sorry* i dont think its the float, i think its something a lot simpler
Last edited by luvzccr : 05-02-2008 at 09:33 AM.
Reason: youtube video
Hello, and welcome to the board. I have been following your engine swap on youtube and think you have a neat project going. It sounds like you have everything to make the engine run, fuel + spark. Did you double check that #1 spark plug wire is in the #1 socket on the cap and you followed the firing order counter clockwise from there?
yup sure did, on the cap there was a little square mark that indicated the #1 socket, we had it on top dead center also. firing order is going counter clockwise, it all checks out. my dad musta re-checked everything three or four times already.
and thanks a lot for following my little project. i just wanna drive my 58 to school one more time before i graduate may 28th. everyone at school loves it, and i miss driving it.. just wanna show it off once more before graduating.. im desperate for help.
i'm stumped too, without being there it is hard to say, Im no engine guru myself but hopefully someone will chime in soon who might have an idea or two. Good luck, I agree it is probably something simple.
OK, I quoted this directly off the other site. There is a piece to this puzzle missing. You need to give us as much information as possible since we cannot be there in person.
Has your Dad verified the carb is not flooding?
I stated 4 questions below - please answer them. It is important needed information. (It's OK if the answer is no)
"When you do get this thing running, promise to stand up and tell us what it was. We might rib ya a bit, but we all have our stories too.
Anyhow, you have blue spark to the plugs, fuel to the carb, and compression. It gives off occasional backfires in the exhaust. You clearly have spark and fuel in the cylinders. It sounded consistent, so I'll ASSUME the firing order is correct. We need more info.
Give some answers:
1. Have you checked TDC marks with #1 piston?
2. Checked if #1 valves are closed at TDC?
3. Checked if the rotor points to #1 plug at TDC?
4. Do you have a timing light?
Use a hand mirror and a leather glove to look into the carb and check for flooding while cranking - keep your head far away! If it's flooding out and you have rubber lines, clamp the fuel line. It should keep your fuel level down in the carb.
notes:
*1,2-Pull #1 plug, and put a long straw in the hole while turning the motor by hand. When the straw is at it's highest, that is either TDC on the compression or exhaust stroke. Remove the valve cover and see if both the #1 rockers are loose (valves shut). If they are, it is the compression stroke TDC - if not, turn the motor one revolution and check again. CHECK DAMPER TIMING MARKS: When both valves are shut and piston is at high point, make sure the TDC timing mark is on pointer. If not, mark that point on the damper and report back. If the #1 valves are not closed at either TDC, ***STOP*** and report this to us. Indicates your timing chain is off.
*3-Pull distributor cap and see that the rotor is point toward the #1 plug while the piston is at TDC compression stroke. If not, put the #1 wire where the rotor faces and replace the other wires from that starting point.
*4-You have to have a timing light to check timing!!!!! Hook it on #1 plug wire next to the plug and check if it flashes near the damper marks when cranking. If it is nowhere near the TDC mark, there is still a timing problem - report back.
DO NOT ASSUME ANYTHING (And I will try to do the same!)
With the original mis-wired backfiring into the carb, the carb could be damaged or the timing chain could have jumped.
Patients, persistence, time .... and a little cash."
Have you tried starting it much since that video, and is it still doing the same things, or has it changed somehow?
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Grossly overestimate the cost at the start so you can tell your wife you "saved" money in the end! - paraphrasing airharley
You asked once if timing was important, so I'll try to explain simply. What you want is for the spark to ignite the fuel/air mix in each cylinder right as the piston is reaching TDC so the explosion can push the cylinder down and turn the crank. At 2000RPMs this is happening in each cylinder about 17 times a second! Again, timing is very important. But on the other hand, you gotta have the right mix of fuel and air.
Another question: What have you been doing with the accelerator pedal when you try to start? Keeping it to the floor will help clear excess fuel when cranking. Don't pump it if you think it has too much fuel. Every time you push down the pedal, there is a pump on the carb that shoots an extra boost of gas.
This page has 2 good animations of what should go on in your motor. Howstuffworks "Camshaft Configurations" Study all the parts and how they interact. Note that in your motor, the valves actually open earlier and close later than in those animations.
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Grossly overestimate the cost at the start so you can tell your wife you "saved" money in the end! - paraphrasing airharley
You know the engine requires compression, (timed) spark and fuel/air.
Not much else is required to get it to fire.
I had a similar problem with my former 239 Y. It ran fine until the timing chain slipped a little and finally got to the point that it wouldn't even run or start! I had to move the dist almost 90 degrees to get it to run at all! Of course it had NO power since the cam was so far out from the rest of the engine. The ignition timing was perfect of course.
1. At this point you need to ENSURE you have sufficient compression. Obtain a compression gage and check each cyl.
2. Check the cam timing. This will entail removing the timing cover. It's a Y-block. the timing marks MUST be at 3 o-clock, not together. And it may have slipped like mine did.
From John Mummert at Ford Y:
Quote:
Timing gear installation. Some people try to align the timing marks on the gears toward each other as is common on newer engines. This is bound to happen more often now as the replacement timing chains no longer have the pins marked for correct alignment with the gears. The marks on the Y-Block timing gears aim toward the oil filter side with 12 pins between them.
3. Make sure you have a good distributor. are the points opening? good spark at each plug? (they probably are since you have pops and backfires etc....)
4. Check each valve and make sure they are all opening and closing.
It's gonna be something simple.....It usually is!
Cheers,
Rick
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1955 F-600 // D I S C L A I M E R: No animals were injured while test driving my F-600 except the ones I RAN OVER INTENTIONALLY!!! (RESISTANCE IS FUTILE) 73 de Rick
sorry for the long reply back, i was at school all day.
and i havent been over to my grandmas to check what my dad did. i printed out the advice you gave me on the y-blocksforever forum, and he claims he did what you advised us to do, i'll go over there with him tomorrow and we'll check it out.
he said though that he wants me to buy new rotor and points i think? he said theres a spark but it goes along the side of the points? im not sure if this is what he said.... he said something about a spark going along the side of something. hes taking a nap now so i cant really ask him..
If you put a new cap on, it's always good to put on a new rotor too. The points are a BIG deal. It really affects when and how long the spark occurs. If the are firing off the side, the best would be to replace them.
Do you have a timing light? If not, beg, borrow, or buy one. It will make this much, much easier, and they are essential to getting your motor to top performance.
__________________
Grossly overestimate the cost at the start so you can tell your wife you "saved" money in the end! - paraphrasing airharley
This is a long shot but could there be a kill switch somewhere under the dash? I do not know anything about Yblocks but another thought is what about some sort of fuse somewhere, dont laugh, I said I know nothing about these motors. Or aground not grounded??
Think outside the box and start somewhere else on it. It is something simple I bet that everyone is overlooking, something very basic not related to timing or fuel.
I read your post on another forum, good luck.
I was just reading on another thread that the ground was not good and it would not start. Worth checking again. Check to make sure all the wires are good, not a visual but a meter or something.
umm... the grounds and everything are old news. we figurd those out a long time ago, we're trying to figure out why it will not start up now.
okay today, we checked EVERYTHING.
i bought a new rotor
new condensor
new points
the distributor cap is new
all of the spark plug wires are giving off a spark
there is fuel getting to the carb
the coil is fine
WE HAVE THE TIMING RIGHT
we HAVE THE FIRING ORDER RIGHT
it is NOT 180 degrees out
we tried rotating it
we used starting fluid to help make it start and nothing happened
my dad stuck his thumb in the number 1 spark plug hole and there is compression
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