52 f-6: install 300-6?

[Fords&Farmalls]

Hello everyone
The other day I went to look at a 1952 F-6 stakebody with a 12 foot bed. It has a manual transmittion (4 speed I assume) with a 2 speed rear. While the body had surface rust, it was very solid and a workable truck. However, the person who had it before had pulled the rods and pistons out of it, and the head and oil pan were off (he has the head and oil pan, not the rods/pistons). The engine was the flathead straight 6. There was sufficient rust in the cylinder walls and there were burnt through valves. He wants 1,500$, which I honestly think is too much, but he said the price is negotiable. So really, 2 main questions.
1) Do you think it is a good idea to put a newer 300 straight six in, and is this possible to hook up (mounts, bellhousing, ect). estimated 2000 dollars to rebuild the flathead, and I cant really spend that.

2) the two speed rear is vacuum operated, and I know zero about this. Are parts available, are they remotely affordable, or can newer, better, more affordable parts be interchainged? It was last inspected in 73, and been sitting a loooong time.
I would love to have your imput here. I would really like the truck, but I dont want to bite off more than I can chew, and I dont want a really bad money pit.
Thanks again, Garrett Schorran

[bobj49f2]

Garrett,

Not to disuade you from getting the truck but there are a few things you have to consider when getting an old truck, especially one of the big ones.

Your first concern with the bigger Fords of this vintage is the wheels. If it has the stock Ford wheels, which most likely it does, they are what is referred to as "Widow Makers". These are badly designed wheels and no reputable tire shop will work on them. You can tell if it has WMs by looking at the concave side of the rims. If you see a 1 1/2" band then they're WM, you're going to have problems finding replacement wheels. Do a search of this forum for "widow makers". Look for post with my name or truckdogs. International, Studebaker and a few others used the same bolt pattern but are getting hard to find, but they are still out there.

As for the engine, a '52 shouldn't have a flathead unless it was a early '52. '52 was the first year Ford used the new overhead valve engine. Using a more modern engine in this truck would be a good idea since the engine in there sounds like it's junk. Flathead V8s are expensive to have rebuilt and the flat 6 are even more expensive because they aren't very popular and there are not many places that sell rebuild parts for them.

As for the two speed rear end, that's another one that is hard to find parts for. You can try to switch the rear axle out with a more modern unit but you might have to settle for a eight bolt unit. This will mean you will have to have two spare tires, one with the five bolt patter and one for the eight bolt pattern. One more modern axle with a five bolt pattern I have seen swapped into a F-5 was from a early '70 International truck. The guy upgraded the gearing using gears from a mid '70s Ford, the internals are the same.

I am not trying to discourage you but to let you know that big trucks aren't that easy to deal with. They are slow, harder to operate, ride rough and finding parts is a challenge and expensive. Finding a place to work on and store them is another added thing to think about. Also, can you get a special vehicle license for this truck? If you have to register as a regular truck of this size it's going to cost $$$. These are all things you have to concider.

Job Lot, JobLot Automotive, in NY carries some parts but items like brake shoes will have to be relined and you will have to look for good used brake drums.

For body parts you can check out the chart on my web site:

Body Part Interchange Guide

$1500 for a truck as you described sounds a little high. If you really want it throw a offer about half that much and see what happens. You're going to stick a lot of money into just to get it road worthy so if you have a limited budget I suggest you walk away from this one.

[HT32BSX115]

Howdy Garrett

The short answer is yes. You could put a 300 in it and it would run good.

The problems are what transmission are you going to use. Your T-98 with the flathead bell won't bolt up to a 300. I don't know how you would adapt it. I know adapters are available for a lot of engine/trans combinations though...

The other problem is your choice of transmission .......if you are not able to adapt the T-98. You'll need a trans with the parking brake on the back. Not many transmissions have the brake and there's no way to adapt a parking brake to the F-6/600s...... I had the same concern.

I am using an E4OD with the SuperDuty parking brake bolted on the back. You could do the same if you were to find a ZF-S542/547. I think there's a problem here....I don't think Ford ever put anything but a 460 or a diesel in the F-450. (They didn't put the small block engine in the F-450)

The parking brake units are used on the F-450/550s but not on smaller trucks. Since the parking brake units don't show up on ZF transmissions that will bolt directly to the small block V-8 engines(and the 300-I6), You'd have to get a ZF that came from a small block-engined truck and buy a parking brake unit to bolt to it. I thought would be easy. Although they are NOT easy to find...nor are they cheap, ....... I did finally find one.

I could even use a 300 in my truck if I decided to not use the Y-block. I have a completely rebuilt 292 ready to go so I'm going to have to use an adapter connect the E4OD to the Y-block.

Your other choice might be to use a much newer 300/trans, Ford did use the 300 in newer F-600s, but I think those much newer trucks had parking brakes that operated the rear brakes instead of being on the trans. I don't know what year that changed.


The vacuum rear shift can be replaced with the electric. (the shift fork must be changed though)

There's other stuff......wheels etc....Looks like Bob has hit on that stuff!


Good luck!


Rick

[Fords&Farmalls]

Hello again
I really, really appreciate your candid and honest replies. Some other questions you adressed were things I wanted to ask but didnt want to overload my first post with. While I know the intelligent thing would probably be to pass this up...I want to mess with the idea just a bit more. The brakes and wheels were another big concern for me. I had enough issues finding a wheel and a tire for a 65 F-350. More questions

1) Seeing as some of you have large Fords from the 50's, can you find brake drums anywhere, can you find tires anywhere, and if you can are they outlandishly expensive? Also, I have never worked on a big truck, so I'm a self proclaimed newbie here. Is there a two speed rear that I could pull out of a large truck junkyard and install the whole thing? Something that is pretty easy to find? Would anything 'bolt on' that you know of?

2) The parking brake is also an issue I hadnt thought of. Not to sound dangerous, but honestly, I never ever use a parking brake on my trucks. They are all stick shift, and I just put them in 1st gear and shut them off. Do you think, with a truck that old, that I could do without one? just a question.
Thanks, keep the replies comming. Appreciate honest imput
Garrett

[bobj49f2]

I think I pretty much answered your first question in my post. They are harder to find parts for and they a lot more expensive than a 1/2 truck of the same vintage.

Question #2, I have been driving my F-2 without a parking brake for over eight years, it's not the smartest thing to do but again, finding the parking brake parts for a model like an F-2 is hard to find, they do make reproduction parts for the F-1, and while I can use some of the F-1 parts there are F-2,3 parts that are model specific and just not made. I can have them custom made but then they also cost more than something that is off the shelf.

[ALBUQ F-1]

FYI -- the flat 6 was still used in the '52 F-6's, everything lighter used the new OHV

[HT32BSX115]

Running around without a parking brake is great until that 8000lb truck starts to roll away and runs into someone or something.......Then it's not so good...

[bobj49f2]

Thanks, Ross. Why do you think that was? Just wanted to clear out stock of the bigger flat sixes? They might not have perfected a bigger OHV six by that time and had to rely on the flattie for one more year until they had a bigger OHV six ready for the big trucks.

[Fords&Farmalls]

All right, I have done some thinking. Here goes:
Replace Engine, Tranny, and 2-speed rear with a 300-6, an NP435/T18 or another that works, and a 2 speed rear out of a newer truck. The 3 things I wonder.
1) how much can you get a 2 speed rear for out of a large truck junkyard?
2)would I have to put a new master cylinder and different wheel cylinders up front?
3) Can they cut/lengthen the driveshaft to fit?
Any ideas are more than appreciated
Thanks, Garrett

[bobj49f2]

1) I have no idea, but I would guess it wouldn't be cheap, especially with the price of I would say a minimum of $250, I got a quote for a pre '73 F-100 for $150 about a year ago. That was from a small, out of the way junkyard. Make sure you look to get the oldest feasible, I would assume a pre '73 should be about the correct width since the pre '73 F-100 axle is almost almost a direct bolt in.

2)I don't think you'd have to change the front wheel cylinders, diffenately rebuild them. As for the master cylinder, that's tricky. You will have to do a calculation of the volumn needed to activate the front and back. That can get hairy and you'll have to find someone that knows the requirements.

3) There are places that will shorten and even build custom driveshafts. They'll build anything you want if you are willing to pay the money.

[Fords&Farmalls]

Thank you for the replies. If anybody has any other wisdom to shed, feel free. If I end up getting the truck, I will be sure to post back
Thanks for the imput Garrett

[HT32BSX115]

My suggestion,

If you're bent on an F6 would be to also find a 56 or newer complete F-600. That way you can swap out hte whold drive train and front axle etc. That way you get 6 lug wheels, and engine trans etc. If you stay with the older stuff you're stuck with trying to find a 5 lug axle which isn't easy!!

Looks like the wheels will be easier now though with the company in Pasco WA making 5 lug 19.5's
etc...


I like the idea of the 300 I6 but for a manual trans, I'd want a ZF so I could use the modern parkbrake that goes on an F-450. I could even use a 300 in mine with the E4OD.....But mine will have that Y-block sound!! and the underhood look of the (John Deere Yellow!!!) Y-Block & Rams Horns!!


Cheers,


Rick