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Old 04-28-2008, 12:31 PM
hop hop is offline
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Water4Gas

Is it a scam? If it works, why aren't mfg installing it?

http://water4gas.com/
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Old 04-28-2008, 02:48 PM
jimandmandy jimandmandy is offline
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How appropriate, a Jimmy Carter video. The last time these type of snake oil products came out of the woodwork was when he was president and we were waiting in lines for gasoline.

Jim
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Old 04-28-2008, 04:40 PM
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I don't know if you would call it a scam but I bought the book from runyourcaronwater.com or something similar... its there competitor...

N e how.. it was just an E-Book that was hard as hell to follow. I took many engineering courses through out high school and what not and let me Tell you... the stuff they are proposing is ridiculously hard to follow and can be built for MUCH less and in a better way. Furthermore, they never told me how to hook it up to a 6.0 diesel... lol or any diesel for that matter. It was just a bunch of references for who to call and what to order. And you did the rest of the leg work. Like if you wanna find out how to hook it up to your vehicle click here.. and its a number. Then it tells you to call and ask. And the place doesn't even know cuz they only deal with gas... I was a little angry with it really.

But, I can;t speak for that website but i hear they are similar and well, they are. If it one thing you need to do its your own due diligence on the subject.

Check out Yahoo forums for HHO. Hydroxide. Water for gas. Bob Boyce.... things that pertain to the matter and you'll find SOOOO much info you could spend literally yrs reading it all.

They all work basically the same. The safest method being using electrolysis to Separate water molecules into HH and O (2 hydrogens, 1 Oxygen atom). Hence the name hydroxy gas.

So in doing so you end up with a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen. the concept is that you then inject that gas into the intake of you vehicle. Sounds simple but it isn't.

Getting the HHO gas is EASY! But getting it to run your truck... thats hard.

First let talk about the getting it to supplement your fuel for a more complete burn so your not thowing 20% of you fuel that you paid for out the tail end (well to the Cat to be burnt so you have good emissions). With older carborated cars... its easy they say... Because there arnt o2 sensors telling a PC to add or remove fuel. So that would be easy to use it on and get great results. Problem with Fuel injected engine with EFIEs on em' lik our newer trucks is once we add that hydroxy gas into our inlet the Pc recognizes that as more oxygen getting to the engine. So it adds more fuel, completely diminishing the positive characteristics of adding it in the first place. (at least from what I have read this is what I got out it all. Correct me if I'm wrong anyone)

there are way to trick the o2 sensors and what not. But, well I'm not that far yet so I couldn't tell ya.

But to have it run completely off HHO gas (by the way HHO gas and Hydroxy are the same thing), you'll need a very very large amount of HHO gas being generated at an instant. This is very hard. I think Bob Boyce's 101 plate design is the highest output of HHO gas generation I have seen yet. 60 liters per min. Thats enough gas to fill a 2 liter bottle every second. That can not suffice as enough fuel to run our 6.0's much less 7.3 and what have you. It is however enough to run motorcycles, and very small beater cars...

And if all this is true why doesn't everyone do... um um.. to much $$$ to be made in oil right at the moment and um um an oil Pres maybe... Don't really know so I couldn't tell you.

But the guy to really invent it and actually have a working HHO gas Buggy took it all the way and was in supreme court with some big oil comps.. sadly he was murdered by poison shortly after. Says a little something huh?

Good Luck,
Alex
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Old 04-28-2008, 06:21 PM
jimandmandy jimandmandy is offline
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The basic problem is energy balance. It simply takes as much energy to separate water molecules as the reaction gives off when recombined into water during combustion.

Since there are always conversion losses in the real world, its a net loss, in other words, a scam. Since few pay attention in chemistry class and very, very few study thermodynamics, the public is easily fooled into believing this stuff.

Jim
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Old 04-29-2008, 11:17 AM
Corey872 Corey872 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALEXVB22 View Post
[snip]

I think Bob Boyce's 101 plate design is the highest output of HHO gas generation I have seen yet. 60 liters per min. Thats enough gas to fill a 2 liter bottle every second. [snip]

Good Luck,
Alex

?? Must be that Irish math thing again? At least it would fill a 2 liter bottle half full! But, yeah, HHO is mostly junk.
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Old 04-29-2008, 12:54 PM
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lol... yea thats right meant 30 lpm... good catch.

But HHO isn't junk... just not perfected and that system I think is junk, yes. But the concept is great... and motors have been run on HHO alone. It's just not easy and take alot of Patience to get into from what I have experienced so far.

Thanks,
Alex
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Old 04-29-2008, 04:20 PM
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running on hho alone would require the engine to produce enough power to move the vehicle down the road as well as enough energy to split water into HHO to power the car down the road and enough to split water into HHO.....and on and on. Unless there's some miracle process that can get more energy out of the HHO than what was used to split the water, what you have is a perpetual motion machine, which violates the laws of thermodynamics. The only way it could possibly be any benefit at all is as a supplement to normal fuel. The Otto cycle itself is never 100% efficient (not even close, even an ideal otto cycle), so there's that working against you already, then factor in all the other efficiencies of the real cycle.
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Old 04-29-2008, 07:51 PM
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Idea for running a generator that runs its self using HHO gas generation.
Charge Recycle Electrolyzer with 191% efficiency!

Electrosyser w/ 191% efficency.
Charge Recycle Electrolyzer with 191% efficiency!

Explains a little about How much or should I say what kind.... of hydroxy will run a car. And it will show what to expect to produce to do the job.
Re: Running A Car On Hydroxy Query

um um... good stuff.
Alex
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Old 04-29-2008, 09:49 PM
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What a crock. I hope you don't believe what those folks are writing. Sure an engine will run on hydroxy/HHO/or whatever you want to call it, but the problem is being able to sustain itself by creating enough of the gas to run the engine and produce enough gas to keep running the engine. I'm sorry, but "Stiffler Scientific" just doesn't seem like a credible source.
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:21 AM
jimandmandy jimandmandy is offline
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Eric,

P. T. Barnum was right.

Jim
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:37 AM
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Here's a simple test to see if any of these schemes will work:
Does any part of the system need to operate at more than 100% efficiency for this system to work? if so, save your money.

Using one fuel to power a system that creates another fuel is ridiculous. Every time energy is converted to another form, you lose some to entropy.
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:13 PM
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Um um.. well its good for experimenting I guess. But to the original Question at the top.. My answer is still no that is not a scam so to speak, but not the most efficient electrolyzer.

Still think there is a future for it though,
Alex
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Old 04-30-2008, 02:15 PM
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Unless I'm missing something, it looks like all the energy still comes from the gasoline.

Yes, this is a scam. Doesn't matter how efficient the "electrolyzer" is.
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Old 04-30-2008, 06:41 PM
monckywrench monckywrench is offline
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The laws of physics don't matter, and it is wonderful if everyone other than myself invests in such things because they are "neat".

"um um... good stuff."

Invest a few thousand dollars into it and let us know how it works out.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:39 PM
aurgathor aurgathor is offline
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For, one, there's no such thing as "HHO" gas -- that's the invention of scammers for the scientifically challenged.
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Old 05-02-2008, 04:39 PM
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