i like hybrids. they are a way for people to get better MPG ratings in their daily driver.
im still on the fence about hybrid trucks because of their need to tow. how much improvement will the average work truck see? is is really worth the cost? i think better diesels are the answer here.
I have actually taked to an inside person at ford. They have already designed the hydraulic hybrid for the new 09 style F-150. Yes, its real and some of the articles are true. The 60mpg that some articles have stated are completely bogus as one could imagine. The hybrid is ready to go as I was told but they have it on hold for more testing as well as working on cost reduction. The limitations that the hydraulic portion relies on extremely high pressure hydraulic fittings that are very expensive. The added cost to this is whats holding it up. I was told by this person that Fords market research has shown that in the full size truck market, they are not willing to bear much additional cost for hybrid technology. The new slated timeframe for this hybrid to be sold is possibly as early as 2009 being unveiled as a 2010 model but may be pushed out another year based on costs. It may be unveiled around the same time as the diesel.
For those not familiar with how a hydraulic hybrid works, they use a hydraulic sytsem to compress nitrogen in accumulators. The nitrogen is compressed and stores energy until needing to be released. Once needed the pressure is released and the nitrogen is allowed to expand to create electricity. The electricity then runs an electric motor similar to any other hybrid. The benefit is that it can release very large amounts of power for a short period of time or lower amounts of power for longer periods. This system replaces large battery banks that are not environmentally friendly to make and dispose of. This also eliminates the need to replaces costly battery packs as well. You wont see this in smaller cars becasue of the size/space requirements needed for accumulators. This technology is already in use with large truck systems such as UPS and Fed Ex vehicles and has prove large gains in fuel economy mostly in stop and go trafic. There will be little to no gains on the freeway.
cool article fordwheeler. good info. i dont see why the new government coming in nov would not subsidize the ford plant and others for this technology. heck they subsidize everyother thing. gotta get rid of those "stinky" ethonal plants. ever drive within five miles of one?
I believe the 6-speed tranny will help 1or 2 mpg's on the F-150 I average from 16.5 to 18+ mpg on the intersate on my '04 F-150 FX4 which has right at 95k on it with not one problem still on the original front brake pads. replaced the back at 85k and I pull a 3000 lb bass boat with out brake on the trailer. I'm waiting to see how the new FX4 crewcabs look. Pleased with my present truck
This system replaces large battery banks that are not environmentally friendly to make and dispose of.
Excellent post with the exception of your repeating the above myth. The batteries are no worse to produce or dispose of than any other Ni-Cd battery of which billions are in use. They are made of metal, they recycle.
Excellent post with the exception of your repeating the above myth. The batteries are no worse to produce or dispose of than any other Ni-Cd battery of which billions are in use. They are made of metal, they recycle.
Like I said though, great post.
I am sorry but I am laughing my arse off right now. Batteries are so freeking horrible for the environment. Lets not even get into the extremely low efficiency rates for energy capacity. You are under a false dillusion that was probably implanted by what companies like Toyota would like you to believe. I have an in depth article explaining the processes for making batteries but its too long to post. Here is a small snipet for you, youll like it especially if your one of those Prius lovers that think your doing the whole world good by buying one. I wish every environmentalist looked closely at, ALL the processes used to make and dispose of the items used to make them. It would be an awakening for most.
"[T]he Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles. The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare. “The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper. All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery"
I am sorry but I am laughing my arse off right now. Batteries are so freeking horrible for the environment. You are under a false dillusion that was probably implanted by what companies like Toyota would like you to believe.......especially if your one of those Prius lovers that think your doing the whole world good by buying one. I wish every environmentalist looked closely at, ALL the processes used to make and dispose of the items used to make them.....
The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario...
Don't tell me, you listen to Rush....
Keep laughing. I won't even try to change your mind but let me throw a couple facts at you and maybe you'll see the weakness of the "Sudbury Mine" urban legend that folks like Rush like to use as an arguement against hybrids.
That mine has been in operation for 120+ years and makes about 60,000 tons of nickel a year. Hybrids have been around for around nine years and the nickel for the batteries is a very small percentage (less than 5% by far) of that produced in the Sudbury mine. Why wasn't anyone concerned about the pollution from this plant for the 110+ years prior to hybrids coming on the scene and why isn't anyone b*tching about the other 95% of the nickel produced that DOESN'T go to hybrid batteries?
So, no, I don't think I am saving the world but I sure am saving some cash at the pump these days. Four bucks a gallon doesn't hurt so bad when I only use six or seven gallons a week. And for the record, I've never considered driving a Prius - not my type of vehicle.
Electric Hybrids, as they are built today, are not the answer. They're to inefficient, and their overall environmental footprint is actually larger than a conventional vehicle.
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93 F One Fiddy- 5.0/AOD/3.55 230K OEM
93 F Two Fiddy Scab- 7.3/ZF5/4.10/Sidewinder II,94 Turbo pump,G Inj's, Velvet Ride, Turbo Bumper, Alcoa's
85 F Two Fiddy-6.9/C6/3.54/ Holley Red, Racor, Soup Bowl,AutoJet 3",Ride Rite Rear
Electric Hybrids, as they are built today, are not the answer. They're to inefficient, and their overall environmental footprint is actually larger than a conventional vehicle.
Really? Take the Escape hybrid for example. It is otherwise identical to the conventional Escape with the exception of the battery pack and a couple electric motors. Where is the big environmental footprint? The nickel in the batteries (maybe 100 pounds)? The copper in the electric motors? Everything else in the car is the same....
Oh yeah, except for the fact that the gas mileage is 25-75% better than the gas only version depending on type of driving.
So, no, I don't think I am saving the world but I sure am saving some cash at the pump these days. Four bucks a gallon doesn't hurt so bad when I only use six or seven gallons a week. And for the record, I've never considered driving a Prius - not my type of vehicle.
What your saving at the pump is greatly off set by the MSRP attached to any hybrid vehicle. I'm not saying that hybrids are bad, but you'll pay at the pump or you'll pay for the technology.
Tim
__________________ Retired Coasty Country Boy from Stockton Springs, Maine '04 Expedition ( Family Car) '99 Taurus. Former family car '88 F-150 4x4 XLT Lariat 5.8L 5Spd '90 Honda Civic (daughter's car) 37 mpg
What your saving at the pump is greatly off set by the MSRP attached to any hybrid vehicle. I'm not saying that hybrids are bad, but you'll pay at the pump or you'll pay for the technology.
True for the first few years. When gas was at two bucks a gallon the payback period was very long indeed. But, I have kept records for every fillup and when I compare how much gas I would have burned in the 2004 V6 Escape I traded in, I have save about $4000 in gas. If I had just bought the one, I'd have pretty much broken even by now.
I have found that many people are resistant to change, especially when it comes to their vehicles. Think of the advances that have been made and I would bet that there was resistance to it.....automatic transmissions, fuel injection, etc. My guess is that hybrids are the next big step. Time will tell.
True for the first few years. When gas was at two bucks a gallon the payback period was very long indeed. But, I have kept records for every fillup and when I compare how much gas I would have burned in the 2004 V6 Escape I traded in, I have save about $4000 in gas. If I had just bought the one, I'd have pretty much broken even by now.
I have found that many people are resistant to change, especially when it comes to their vehicles. Think of the advances that have been made and I would bet that there was resistance to it.....automatic transmissions, fuel injection, etc. My guess is that hybrids are the next big step. Time will tell.
I suspect most of the current crop of hybrids will be as obsolete as analog TV by the time most of them are paid for.
For some reason, almost all battery manufacturing locations end up as hazardous waste sites.
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2004 XLT Regular Cab, Short Bed, 4X4 with 5.4 and 3.73.
Hybrids are just one step in the right direction, and depending how much gas prices go to and how much you drive, changes how big that step really is. For those who travel mostly on the highway, the hybrids don't really do squat, which is the situation I'll be facing once I move into my new house (40 mile trip on the highway to work).
Hybrid technology is old. It wasn't necessarily designed to save mileage on your daily driver. It was designed to eliminate the problems of transmissions and idle speed for large things like trains and ships. They are more efficient since they don't need enormous transmission; the electric motor directly drives the wheels, and can apply pretty much full torque from zero speed to full. And the engine could then be designed and run at its optimal efficiency since its just running a generator. But modern transmissions for cars and even heavy trucks are pretty well perfected now-a-days and fairly efficient.
Full electric IMO would be ideal, but since battery technology isn't there yet to get a fairly lightweight battery pack that can go a few hundred miles, they compromise by putting back the 'ol combustion engine so the thing wont leave you stranded after 100 miles. Having the engine ensures you'll never run out of battery juice and can drive indefinitely between charges. All-electric cars are proven IMO, just not affordable and too short of range. And I think the battery/motor size will have to be more linearly matched to the size of the vehicle and thus the cost. Meaning to go the same distance a truck is going to have to have 3 times the battery size and cost much more, so the days of a full size truck and a mid size car costing about the same will end, with full electric I think the price will much more closely match the size of the vehicle.
Its all about battery technology, we need lighter batteries that will hold more charge, and cost less. Will be quite some time before this happens. But if it does happen, I think were all going to be driving fully electrics. Note that I am not saying this is a green solution, I don't think that electrics or hybrids are that much more earth friendly, especially due to the batteries. And the electricity it takes to charge it, well, will probably be mostly from coal. Frankly I cant wait till they start going all electric, but I think the heavier trucks will be gas for quite some time.
But think about the all-electrics from a mechanical point of view. How many moving parts in a combustion engine? Hundreds? In an electric motor there is just one, the rotor. How many different fluids must one have and maintain? Oil, tranny fluid, water/coolant mix, etc… none in an electric. 500 pounds (or more) of steel an aluminum? How about less than 100 pounds in an electric (well the batteries depending on what type will increase that though). Even the electronics will probably be simpler, a lot less things to monitor and control. Probably a better and easier way to implement 4x4… each wheel will simply get its own motor.
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