It's been a while for me here, but here's my new question.....I've reworked my 1941 229 block by boring the 239, switched the cam to a geared cam so I can run a '49-'53 distributor setup, so I can use an MSD electronic ignition. Switched the crank pulley to the late model double pulley, installing 'extended' pulley water pumps and a longer pulley on the altenator (12 volt conversion). The issue is I cant mount my old engine fan to the new crank pulley. I suppose the easy answer is to go to a shrouded electric fan, but was curious if anyone has retrofit a later model engine fan (which I understand mounted high on the front of the engine) to and older 59AB style setup, I DO have a second crank pulley groove available to drive an engine fan if I figure out how to mount it. Thanks in advance.
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Steve
WV Chapter Member
1941 Ford 1/2 Ton Flathead
1934 Chebby Sedan
steve, sharp truck!! if you don't mind losing a couple of horsepower you could extend the length of the fan shaft, assuming you can use original fan mount. considering that engine was built for more power, and you have the juice to run electric fan, why not? originality is not issue or alt. wouldn't be there, and electric fan is somewhat more silent when running, doesn't seem like it's an issue. pete
Originality is NOT an issue (see updated photo gallery ), I was just wondering HOW the original later model engine fans were mounted.....I've seen generator (and consequently alternator) brackets with holes drilled for mounting a fan bracket and I would then suppose the second crank pulley was used to drive the fan.
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Steve
WV Chapter Member
1941 Ford 1/2 Ton Flathead
1934 Chebby Sedan
steve, in looking at your pictures and inspecting an 8rt(49-51) that sits in my shed, the fan is mounted to face of intake manifold. same as my 42-59ab. i saw that your manifold was the same and so commented. the 8rt has extended water pump pulleys! knowing thisand that you have extended crank pulley told me that using original mount for fan with extended shaft would work. i don't know what kind of tolerances are between engine and radiator, but presume they are close to original specs. if dimensions didn't change, then original mount should work, either shimmed out or extending shaft. now i'm curious, did i miss something? just trying to help. pete
Pete
Actually, you are CORRECT......HOWEVER, my 8RT had the 'short' water pumps and a single groove crank pulley with the engine fan bolted to the front of the crank pulley. Once I added the geared cam to drive the later style distributor, instead of the 'crab style' distributor, I ran into issues with the 5/8" belt running up to the slingshot mounted alternator, because the belt hit the distributor. switching to extended (late model TRUCK) pumps, double groove crank pulley and extended pulley on the altenator to gain belt clearance, we're hopfully okay now.
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Steve
WV Chapter Member
1941 Ford 1/2 Ton Flathead
1934 Chebby Sedan
steve, glad to hear all is ok. for a minute there i thought i was zoning and missing something. i noticed in pictures of engine bay that it APPEARS that radiator hoses may be, (at highest point on elbows above thermostats), highest point in system, if so, make sure you bleed coolant system to remove air bubbles, don't want her getting hot! pete
as i.m sitting here thinking (?), you are running an independent drive belt for fan as it should be, otherwise you could prematurely fry alt bearing. pete
Actually haven't gotten that far yet. ORIGINALLY, no....single crank pulley and single belt for both water pumps and generator/altenator. The new double groove pulley COULD run the engine fan, but for now.......just the water pumps and alternator. I've about decided to keep it simple and go electric. !
__________________
Steve
WV Chapter Member
1941 Ford 1/2 Ton Flathead
1934 Chebby Sedan
Since originality isn't an issue, just opt for the electric fan...they'll pull more air at idle than anything belydriven could think of.
But, make sure you have two things...a T-stat control on the fan, as well as some type of shut off device...you don't need the fan running on the highway (shut off switch) butr certainly want it to come on when putting in town (t-stat switch).
FWIW on my IROC, the primary fan (I have two) is controlled by the ECM...I have a VSS that tells the ECM how fast I am going, once I get over about 35mph, the ECM shuts off the primary fan and lets the speed of the car coll the coolant..I have the secondary fan setup to run on engne temps..so once it get above 185, I pull air, no matter the speed.
Anyway, just letting you know how modern stuff works and no reason the odler stuff won't work the same way
Thanks Mike, on my '34 sedan, I have a straight setup on an electric fan......running 185 thermostats, and an auto on swtich for when I turn the AC on.
__________________
Steve
WV Chapter Member
1941 Ford 1/2 Ton Flathead
1934 Chebby Sedan
i was never a big fan of electric fans, i owned a radiator shop for 20 years and played with a lot of hot rod overheating issues, and most of them were caused by electric fans.
if at all possible i would stick with a belt driven setup. you'll get more even cooling with a fan that runs constantly.
ps. any chance you can email all your original photos, i like what your doing and I'm starting my 46 project now.
i was never a big fan of electric fans, i owned a radiator shop for 20 years and played with a lot of hot rod overheating issues, and most of them were caused by electric fans.
if at all possible i would stick with a belt driven setup. you'll get more even cooling with a fan that runs constantly.
ps. any chance you can email all your original photos, i like what your doing and I'm starting my 46 project now.
Eric, I have to beg to differ on your response. There's no way a belt drivenm fan can pull as much air as ecven the cheao elitric ones can, plus the fact that the fan isn't need at cruising speeds and can become a hinderance to air flow.
It's just not my opinion, but could be why OEM's have been using electric fans for 20+ years now...with much better success than manually driven fans.
I'd also have to ask, what you mean by "even cooling".
I'm sure you would know that the fan spinning at speed (at say 55-70 MPH) becomes a restriction to airflow...hence the issue of clutch fans in the early/mid 70's...
Not wantig to start an arguement, but I think you are either grossly misinformed, or your experince was li9mited to certain issues that were not installed correctlty
i'm with the postmaster on this one! any fan working at high rpm's will disturb air movement, actually making more heat. properly installed, and correct cfm,s will enhance performance and cooling in one shot.
Eric, I have to beg to differ on your response. There's no way a belt drivenm fan can pull as much air as ecven the cheao elitric ones can, plus the fact that the fan isn't need at cruising speeds and can become a hinderance to air flow.
It's just not my opinion, but could be why OEM's have been using electric fans for 20+ years now...with much better success than manually driven fans.
First off, what oem's do to cars is not always because it's better for the car, but it's better for their wallets.
OEM's started using electric fans because they started making fwd cars with the engine sitting sideways. they also are better for fuel mileage because they are not dragging off the engine. Neither of those reasons have anything to do with being better for the engine. Fan clutches were incorporated because when they are not needed to cool, they freewheel and don't drag power from the engine.
I'd also have to ask, what you mean by "even cooling".
an electric fan is set to come on with a temp switch, most of which are set at 220 degrees because they don't want them coming on unless your stopped in traffic. then they cycle off around 200. If you use an engine driven fan you will notice your temp guge wont fluctuate, because the fan is always running.
I'm sure you would know that the fan spinning at speed (at say 55-70 MPH) becomes a restriction to airflow...hence the issue of clutch fans in the early/mid 70's... SEE ABOVE
Not wantig to start an arguement, but I think you are either grossly misinformed, or your experince was li9mited to certain issues that were not installed correctlty
My limited experience consists of managing a radiator shop for 7 years and owning one for 20, wasn't what I'd call limited. And I'm a pretty fair mechanic and right now I own a 69 stang coupe, a 70 stang ragtop, a 74 F-350, a 65 F-100, a 46 ford pickup and a 72 bronco, so I've been around a couple of old fords in my day.
i'm with the postmaster on this one! any fan working at high rpm's will disturb air movement, actually making more heat. properly installed, and correct cfm,s will enhance performance and cooling in one shot.
You'd have a valid point if he was building a race car. I have engine driven fans on all of my old fords, and always have, including my old 69 scj, and never had any overheating problems.
I'm not a purest, but I am very PRO-SIMPLE. I find the less un-needed BS under my hood, the less problems I have on the road. They've come up with some good idea's over the years, but some of them are just added parts in my oppinion.
By the way, all of this is just my oppinion, but it is backed by quite a bit of experience. Now if you'll excuse me I have a date with Captain Morgan
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), I was just wondering HOW the original later model engine fans were mounted.....I've seen generator (and consequently alternator) brackets with holes drilled for mounting a fan bracket and I would then suppose the second crank pulley was used to drive the fan.
