I'm new to this forum and have spent a few days reading and searching all the old posts. I have two '52 Ford trucks, one a F-4 the other a F-6. The F-6 I'm currently working on, hoping to have done sometime this summer. It's getting a new paint job and a 337 flathead Lincoln engine dropped in it. The F-4 is one I rescued off the neighbor who was hauling it in for scrap.
My questions I have concern the lug and stud on the rear duals that each of these trucks have and which way to turn to remove the studs. For example the drivers side lugs nuts are left hand thread, would the studs be the same or opposite thread? They have a "L" stamped in them but I don't know if that means that they are left hand thread for the lug nuts only or if they also have left hand threads for holding the inner wheel.
Also, does anyone have a part number, correct size or a place to pick up these lug nuts and studs? I've google search and found the same type of lug/stud combo but with out the correct part number or thread size, I hate to order any.

Thanks in advance and for such a great forum.

 

First of all, welcome. Glad to have you hanging around.

First question, left hand or right hand thread: Like you said, driver's side is left hand thread. That means you tighten everything going counter clockwise. The passenger side is right hand thread which means you tighten going the normal clockwise direction. The studs are 3/4" x 16 tpi and will be either "R" or "L" hand thread. As you'll see in the charts I'll attach, these old "stud piloted" systems used an inner nut over the stud, sometimes called a "thimble" because that's what it looks like, teamed with an outer nut on the rear duals. First you tighten the thimble to hold the inner wheel on the stud, then the outer nut secures the outer wheel.

Where to find: I've bought them locally at the IH big truck dealership. I've also bought them at a local OTR trailer dealer. The same system is still in use today.

Be aware that these are designed to have between 400 psi and 500 psi of dry torque. Do not oil the studs. Do not use anti-seize compound. How you achieve that amount of torque can be problematic. I've seen it written that a normal sized man standing on a 3' cheater bar can generate about that much force on the lug wrench. You'll want to shop ebay for the old style Budd lug wrenchs that have the hex on one end and square on the other. Your local farm and home may have them too.

The other thing you'll want to be careful about are the wheels themselves. Do a forum search here for discussion of "multi-part wheels", "split rims", or "Firestone RH-5°". All the wheels that came on these trucks when new are the Firestone RH-5°s that nobody will work on anymore. At least nobody reputable. So, at some point you'll want to think about replacement wheels. Hope that helps.

 

if you are talking about the inner and outer budd lugs you can get them also at about any truck tire store
the statement about putting never-seize on the lugs is incorrect,where i live if you didn't the next change would involve a cutting torch,this is 45 years experience
you can get varios types of lug wrenches at truck part stores,if you have 3/4 drive tools sockets for each can be purchased the square is 13/16 and outer is 1 1/2
the inner nut comes in several lengths so take one with you or a measurement,longer lengths can replace shorter one if need be
a four ft cheeter pipe is handy,tighten them till they squeak

 

OK Ray, so you've been doing it wrong for 45 years. This article in Fleet Owner explains why. Also, if anybody would like to see it, I can post a chart from one of the catalogs that says to torque these wheels "Dry". Ray would, however, be correct if we were talking about later "hub piloted" wheels. A little oil is recommended on them with less torque. Go to Debunking a myth .

 

the torque on hub and std piloted are completly for different reasons
the reason for the high torque on the stud piloted is because of the large tapered outside diameter,the stud itself won't withstand the torque

 

TruckDog your absolutely correct. and I have been telling new maintenance guys that for 30 years. A 3/4-16 is good for 420 ft\lbs to achive 75% max torque. Thats dry torque. Lubricated torque with oil drops to 320 ft/lbs and if you use anti-seize, or a Dry Film such as Teflon or moly based products the torque spec drops 50% to 210 ft/lbs. Just last week I had a couple of guys replacing some pillow block bearings that had 1 inch 8 bolts that torqued to 900 ft/lbs and they snapped 2 of them off and couldn't figure out why. I walked up and there sat a can of anti-seize. I told them to clean out the bottom bearing holder threads, get 2 new bolts and to throw the anti-seize away. No more problem! Now all of the above is based on a grade 8 rating. An incorrect torqued bolt or nut is just as bad as a loose one, it could fail at any moment. Lakota

 

Thanks for the info. I have a couple of the lug wrenchs that's used for both the hex and square lugs. I just didn't want to be wrenching on the studs without first knowing which direction they turned to loosen.

I noticed that the front and rear lugs are a diffent size stud. The front studs seem to be a smaller diameter. Does this mean that I should have different rims for the front and the rear? Or should I change out the front studs for the larger size to match the rear?

As a side note on the tires. My F-6 has two different types of rims. I checked them last night and 3 of the tires look like the RH5 type. They have the raised 1 1/2" band (for lack of better word) running the inside of the rim with the noticable lip in the middle of the wheel. The other 2 (I only have 5 wheels for the F-6) are some type of split rim with the outside bead being the location of the split ring.

 

** BB1120 .. RIGHT Wheel Nut ~ 3/4" -16

** BB1121 .. LEFT Wheel Nut ~ 3/4" -16

511107 .. RIGHT Wheel Stud ~ RH Thread ~ 3/4" -16 x 2 1/4"

511108 .. LEFT Wheel Stud ~ LH Thread ~ 3/4" -16 X 2 1/4"
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greensalescompany.com has the following > >

7) BB1120

10) BB1121

16) 511107

4) 511108
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** The nuts are still (!) available from Ford under updated FoMoCo part numbers.

BB1120A / MSRP: $9.67 each / ftepartsguy.com price each: $6.96

BB1121A / MSRP: $4.96 each / ftepartsguy.com price each: $ 3.56

Why is one nut higher priced than another? Prolly supply and demand would be my guess, some trucks only use the RH nuts.
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The 1948/56 Ford Truck Parts Catalog sez the nuts & studs are used front and rear.

***** EDIT***** someone may have changed the front OR rear studs/nuts, what thread size are they?

3/4" is the largest size shown, there are also 5/8" studs/nuts used on F3's.

The part numbers I listed above fit: 1948/52: TL (F4), TH (F6) and many others thru the 1990's.

 

I suspect that your different stud sizes relates to the fact that, on the rear, you're really looking at the thimble, not the stud. The thimble screws on to the stud to hold the inner dual wheel in place. Then the outer wheel goes on over the thimble and is held in place by the outer nut. On a dual rear you won't see the stud itself until you remove the outer nut, outer wheel, and thimble. Once the thimble is off the inner wheel will come off.

Were you able to view the photo links I included above? Why they didn't post as pictures I don't understand. That's not happened to me before. Might be something to do with FTEs new software.

I'm glad you have at least two useable lock ring wheels. When you get ready to buy new come back and do a forum search for options.

 

Maybe this will give a better understanding than the drawings. Hope so.

 

I went and looked a little closer at the original cutaway drawings that truckdog attached and now see the thimble and stud your talking about. It all makes sense now...except... would the outside wheel on the back have a larger holes for the thimble than the inner wheel and the front wheels or does the nut and or thimble make up for the smaller stud? The front wheel is a 5/8" stud and the rear outside thimble is 3/4". If the rear wheel is capable of sliding over the 3/4" thimble would it have too big of lug holes to put on the front or inside 5/8" studs and prevent the lug nuts from tightening properly against the rim?

 

No, the wheels are all the same. The front nuts center the wheel on the lug. I didn't post a picture of the flip side of the front nut, but in your mind imagine that it looks like the base of the thimble.

Maybe I should explain what I mean by "the wheels are all the same". Our old trucks use wheels that are termed "stud piloted". This is because the nuts locate and center the wheels on the hubs. Others, notably old General Motors products and the majority of modern trucks, use systems known as "hub piloted". Which, like it sounds, means the the center bore of the wheel fits tightly over the hub to locate it. In hub piloted designs the lug nuts don't serve any purpose in positioning the wheels. All they do is hold tight. So, my point in all this it that when you get to looking for replacement wheels, you will want to look for "stud piloted" wheels. Budd, Kelsey-Hayes, and Firestone/Accuride all made these in our 5 lug x 8" circle bolt pattern. You'll want to watch for the concave area around the bolt hole where the nut fits to center the wheel on the lug. You'll want to avoid (or at least look closely at) wheels made by Motor Wheel Corporation, called Spoksteel, because they are commonly the hub piloted variety. You also will want to avoid modern 5 lug wheels made for import trucks because they will have a metric bolt pattern.