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Old 04-23-2008, 04:36 PM
ta5150 ta5150 is offline
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my wmo filter setup- your thoughts

Ok so I'm new to this site, but I have read through just about all the wmo stuff I could dig up at this site and others. There is a lot of really good info here. After doing all of this research, I have built and tried my wmo filter. I haven't put any in my truck yet, but here is what I have built:

Used wmo from the diesel shop I work at is brought home and mixed at 4 gals oil to 1 gal #2 ulsd, and opti-lube xpd additive. Next it is dumped into 20 gallon heated (100-150F) barrel, with a t-shirt at the top to strain through. It sits there and heats until I open the valve at the bottom. It then flows through a 100 micron inline (cheapo) fuel filter. Then into a 20-30 micron (not sure) engine oil filter (Fram PH-8 equivalent). Then into a 2 micron permacool oil filter. Then into a 2 micron permacool fuel filter/water separator. Then into a 1 micron filter bag. Finally into my gas can.

My truck is then set up with the following: Stock fuel filter with a 70watt 12volt heater pad wrap, then an electric/coolant heated fuel filter right before the inj pump. The second filter is thermostatically set at 180F and once the coolant is hot, the electric portion shuts off. BTW i have a single fuel tank. I am hoping to hear some input before I fire up my truck on this potion.

Sorry for the lengthy post, but I wanted to keep it clear. Any input from wmo users would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for your time.

Oh yeah I have a picture of this setup but I don't have a website to put it on, not really sure how to do that. If someone wants I could email it to them and maybe could post the pic here for people to see.
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Old 04-23-2008, 08:44 PM
JJFIVEOH JJFIVEOH is offline
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Try photobucket. It's really easy to use. I'd be interested to see your setup. I just started running wmo in my 7.3 today.

Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:31 AM
ta5150 ta5150 is offline
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Hope this works. THe first filter is hard to see, it is about six inches downstream of the shutoff valve.
Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-24-2008, 06:32 AM
ta5150 ta5150 is offline
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Sorry I'm not sure why it won't let me rotate the picture. Oh well.
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Old 04-24-2008, 09:46 AM
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Phydeaux88 Phydeaux88 is offline
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WMO May well contain submicron sized metal and carbon particles.
These will accumulate overtime and begin to plug small passages, like injector nozzles.
They will also fill in small spaces such as the microscopic gap around rings and eventually cause the ring to become frozen in place.
The quantity of oil you are using (2WMO:1 #2) keeps the concentration of the particles high enough to be problematic.
There are posts on this forum detailing the problems people have encountered using WMO do a search and you may change your approach.
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Old 04-24-2008, 10:11 AM
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Check out this sample report from Blackstone Labs. Does anyone really think they can filter out all the "crap" in WMO??????????

Blackstone Laboratories - Truck Report 1
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Old 04-30-2008, 12:05 PM
bowhunter1331 bowhunter1331 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabmandelux View Post
Check out this sample report from Blackstone Labs. Does anyone really think they can filter out all the "crap" in WMO??????????

Blackstone Laboratories - Truck Report 1
Please help me understand this report.. it apprears to be better then in was the last oil chnge with some small exceptions.
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Old 04-30-2008, 02:29 PM
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I dont think he was concerned with the quality of the oil vs the last oil change.
He was pointing out all the metals present in microscopic form.
Thats what will cause problems from running WMO, in high concentration, for fuel.
You cannot filter those metals completely out.
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Old 05-04-2008, 03:31 AM
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Thanks guys for replying. I am aware of the issue of potential ring coking, and injector coking from oil usage. Phydeaux88- your reply seems to be talking about the "coking" issue I read about elsewhere. That is definately a concern to me. However, from what I have read, it takes so long for a failure to occur from this process that repairs would be covered by the money saved in fuel. My truck is old and not worth much, plus I have backup vehicles in case a failure does occur. So If I blow my engine or lose an IP, that sucks, but its not the end of the world. Do you have any input on how long it would take for these submicronic particles to build up and cause problems?

One thing to consider is how much junk is potentially getting into ulsd or #2Diesel from its journey from the refinery to your fuel tank. Who is to say that the stuff from the pump is cleaner than what I can make in my shed?

You mentioned the particles filling the submicronic gap around piston rings. I have rebuilt many diesel engines, and never have I seen a space around a piston ring that was submicronic. That clearance is measured with feeler guages in thousandths of an inch during a rebuild. During normal engine operation, the piston ring will move to the top of the ring groove and back to the bottom as the piston travels up and down. I can't see these particles clogging up that space quickly, but if they did, I agree a siezed piston or seriously excessive wear would rapidly occur.

I read about many people using high concentrations of wmo that has been filtered similar to my setup (or in many cases with much less filtering) and running through summers and winters for years. So far I haven't read about anyone having a wmo-for-fuel-related failure (other than clogged filters). But I continue to read every new post I can come across in hopes of finding new info or valuable experience from others.

BTW any input from experienced wmo users is highly appreciated.
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:42 AM
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I dont think coking is a problem, that is pretty much associated with WVO not WMO.
It is the sub micron metal particles that will accumulate and plug small passages, and the acids that will attack and destroy metalic components in your fuel system.
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Old 05-05-2008, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ta5150 View Post
You mentioned the particles filling the submicronic gap around piston rings. I have rebuilt many diesel engines, and never have I seen a space around a piston ring that was submicronic. That clearance is measured with feeler guages in thousandths of an inch during a rebuild. During normal engine operation, the piston ring will move to the top of the ring groove and back to the bottom as the piston travels up and down.
From what you said I do not believe you understand how small a micron is.
It is one millionth of a meter or one thousandth of a millimeter. There are 25.4 millimeters in an inch so there would be 25400 microns in an inch.
There are no feelergauges that small.
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Old 05-08-2008, 02:26 PM
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No I understand the size of a micron. I was trying to say that the spaces around the piston ring are much larger than that. So much larger, that they are measured w/feeler guages, in thousandths of an inch, not in microns.

With the metal particles plugging passages issue, if wmo is filtered to 1 micron, and the stock fuel filter is 10 micron, doesn't it seems like anything less than 10 microns should be able to pass through the whole injection system? It just seems that when the engine/fuel system was designed, if the engineers chose to use 10 micron fuel filters, then they must have figured that anything smaller would pass through the system. I imagine if this is the case then they would consider those particles passing through would be a cause of "normal wear." Wmo probably has more particles than pump fuel, hence the extreme filtering. So it would seem my biggest potential problem areas are increased wear on the injection pump, injectors, and maybe transfer pump.

I think I am being way to picky about this filter setup. Everyone else who does this, it seems, is filtering much less, and with positive results.
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Old 05-08-2008, 04:38 PM
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my suspicions are that injectors would go first but then any of the above would be a high $$$$ repair.
You have to determine if you can save enough to pay for the repairs by running WMO and if it comes out a wash will it be worth it.
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Old 05-09-2008, 09:43 PM
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I personally think you will be just fine running that setup. The finest fuel filter I have seen is 2 micron most are 5 to 10 microns. Most fuel station only filter their fuel to 30 micron before its put in your tank. Also a note on the blackstone report, many of those items measured are additives in the oil not so much metals.
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Old 05-12-2008, 01:35 PM
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All of these are metals not additives and are listed as present in the Blackstone report:
Aluminum, postsium, chromium, iron, copper, lead, tin, calcium, sodium, phosphorus, magnesium, and zinc

Boron and silicon are non metals but are also listed as present.

Service stations are not worried about filtering out such contaminants because they typically are not present in fuel. They are worried about filtering out dirt and algae which are considerably larger particles.

Finally you must take into account the combustion by products which are found in waste motor oil. Many are acidic and will attack metal fuel system parts, they cannot be filtered out.
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