Oregon has mandated an ethanol mix to our gasoline. First of all, it has caused a major fuel mileage drop. I went from getting 35-36 mpg consistently to 27-29. A 20% or more decrease.
And, it takes approx 1 acre planted to make enough ethanol to make a gallon of ethanol blend fuel. How much diesel fuel is used to farm that acre? It doesn't make any sense.
I have never had that much a drop, and actually, I have experienced drop from NOT running the 10% blend here. Got 35 MPG on it my last tank. Also, if it takes one acre to make 10% of a gallon, someone is doing it way wrong, considering that would be about 200 bushels out here. I don't see even poor land producing that badly. There are also other products as well from the same corn that was processed for ethanol. However, I agree in that we can't produce enough from corn alone to be effective. But don't be fooled, there is plenty of feed grain and the like, it's just that much of it is being exported out, since exports of grains are at an all time high...
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the workhorse:86 F250 4x4 6.9 Diesel 4-spd, 4.10 axles, holley red electric pump
the other workhorse 92 F350 2wd crew cab, 4.10 rear axle, 92 6bt Cummins, 47RH auto with Gear Vendors overdrive
the project: 77 F250 Camper special 400 4 speed Iowa Chapter leader
Come on down and join us in the Iowa chapter, or your own local chapter!!
Oregon has mandated an ethanol mix to our gasoline. First of all, it has caused a major fuel mileage drop. I went from getting 35-36 mpg consistently to 27-29. A 20% or more decrease.
And, it takes approx 1 acre planted to make enough ethanol to make a gallon of ethanol blend fuel. How much diesel fuel is used to farm that acre? It doesn't make any sense.
Jason
Funny thing though.
E85 (closer to 80%) should have about 85,800 btu's, or 31.5% less energy but you, and most everyone else, only get 20% less mileage.
Well, if you ran only E85 or even 100% Ethanol, your engine could have a compression ratio of 14:1 to 15:1 and then the mileage would improve greatly, and if designed right could even get better mileage than gasoline because a higher compression ratio puts more of the energy in a fuel to use.
The typical engine at 9:1 uses 13% of Gasolines 125,000 btu's, that's 16,250 btu's used by the rear wheels.
The typical engine at 9:1 uses 13% of Ethanols 76,000 btu's, that's 9,880 btu's used by the rear wheels.
E85 (closer to 80%) should have only about 85,800 btu's
That's why your mileage drops.
But if upping the compression ratio on an Ethanol engine to, say, 15:1 and if that raised the percentage of energy used to, say 19% than that would be 16,150 btu's used.
Close to that used by Gasoline.
Take a gram of gun powder in an open pile and light it and it goes fizzle, compress it like wrapping it tightly in a little paper, and you have a fire cracker----BOOM!
More compression, more efficient use of the energy potential.
Propane:
1 Gal Propane = 91,600 Btu's
Gasoline:
1 Gal Gasoline (mid grade) = 125,000 Btu's
Ethanol:
1 Gal Ethanol = 76,000 Btu's
Diesel Fuel Oil:
1 Gal of #2 Fuel Oil = 139,000 Btu's
But butanol is better than Ethanol in every way.
More energy per gallon and just about as much as Gasoline, less corrosive and there is a Hydrogen byproduct from the process that can be recovered increasing the energy yield per acre. BUTANOL Advances in Biofuels
Quote:
Originally Posted by David85
For solar energy, if your roof is made of PV cells you don't have to by electricity anymore. I don't have the numbers on hand, but most single family homes have enough surface area on the roof to not only power the home, but also at least one car as well with enough left over to sell back into the grid.
But not all the surface area is facing directly at the sun, and some sides spend most of the year facing away in total shade.
Not to mention that a solar system in upper Washington state needs more than twice the system square foot area as one in southern Arizona, that's more than twice the roof surface area that is "facing the sun".
Quote:
Originally Posted by David85
It is concievable to power a fullsize truck depending on how far you have to go per charge.
With the battery technology "we are allowed to use right now" there is what is called the "point of diminishing returns" where once a vehicle gets heavy enough, to carry another battery to try to add driving range, it takes as much or more energy than that battery has in it just to drag it along from mile one!
So the range on a full sized truck would be seriously limited with standard lead acid batteries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David85
campbell river residence succesfully thwarted a planned offshore wind farm project a few years ago. The main reason was that it would ruin everyones ocean view and possibly damage the sport fishery. Noise pollution is not a problem with wind turbines anymore and attempts to explain the project actual impact on the environment fell on deaf ears. Alas, most folks made up their mind when they saw the artist rendition on front page news....what a waste.
Classic case of NIMBY.
I would love to see a wind farm off shore if I lived there!
Stupid "NIMBY" people!
And as for the power company, I would think that if someone was worried about one on their back yard, the company should offer to help them get an electric car and then offer to power it for free as long as they live there.
A small price to pay to get a power plant operational!
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Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
Verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell the shutting down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors on I get 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!
However, with a bed cover, no mirrors and Hydroxy
i've been enjoying this thread and wasn't going to chime in, but thought i would anyway. ethanol produced by corn is the most innefficient way of producing alcohol (at least for driving and not drinking). the reason we don't have a better supply of ethanol to blend with our fuels here is because a certain contingency of senators/legislators from the corn belt have passed into law an enormous tarriff on importing ethanol from brazil where they produce it cheaply. just my shake on the situation.
speedrdr
i've been enjoying this thread and wasn't going to chime in, but thought i would anyway. ethanol produced by corn is the most innefficient way of producing alcohol (at least for driving and not drinking). the reason we don't have a better supply of ethanol to blend with our fuels here is because a certain contingency of senators/legislators from the corn belt have passed into law an enormous tarriff on importing ethanol from brazil where they produce it cheaply. just my shake on the situation.
speedrdr
To do something like that is total stupidity, therefor it must be true.
Yes, corn is not the best way to produce Ethanol, but using Sugar cane, or even using the Sugar beet is a much better way.
But no matter the crop used to produce an Alcohol fuel, Butanol, production is still a more efficient use.
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Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
Verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell the shutting down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors on I get 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!
However, with a bed cover, no mirrors and Hydroxy
don't know if it's true or not, haven't verified it, but i'm told that switchgrass produces much more than corn, beets or any other "edible" food crop. know i'm going to date myself, but i sure do miss the 18 cents a gallon diesel. just glad i've got a motorcycle to make the bite not quite as bad at the pump.
don't know if it's true or not, haven't verified it, but i'm told that switchgrass produces much more than corn, beets or any other "edible" food crop. know i'm going to date myself, but i sure do miss the 18 cents a gallon diesel. just glad i've got a motorcycle to make the bite not quite as bad at the pump.
speedrdr
Most of the plant is cellulose and that process uses that, so we could eat the corn and then use the left over corn stalks to make the Ethanol.
And I recall my first fill up cost 75 Cents per gallon for regular gas in Texas when I was 15 and got my first license, and I rode a Greener than Green 1976 100cc Hodaka road toad.
I was tall for my age so it was the only 100cc bike I would fit and at 15 that was the cc limit.
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Gray 1991 F250 standard cab, 7.3, E4OD, 3.55:1, stock wheels and tires.
Verified 19 mpg city taking off slow as hell the shutting down at red lights, and with the radiator grill blocked flush, no bed cover, "drag shoot" mirrors on I get 24 mpg at 50 to 55 mph on the freeway empty!
However, with a bed cover, no mirrors and Hydroxy
But not all the surface area is facing directly at the sun, and some sides spend most of the year facing away in total shade.
Not to mention that a solar system in upper Washington state needs more than twice the system square foot area as one in southern Arizona, that's more than twice the roof surface area that is "facing the sun".
True, but you would be supprised how little surface area is actually needed just to run the average house. We have plans to equip our hose with it in the comming years now that our power company was forced to allow electricity to be sold back to the grid. Basically, we can use the utility company as a battery bank, making the conversion cheaper. We already got rid of the wood stove that we used to heat the house until recently. Using a mix of CNG forced air, and in floor electric for now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel
With the battery technology "we are allowed to use right now" there is what is called the "point of diminishing returns" where once a vehicle gets heavy enough, to carry another battery to try to add driving range, it takes as much or more energy than that battery has in it just to drag it along from mile one!
So the range on a full sized truck would be seriously limited with standard lead acid batteries.
Lead acid is not the standard anymore. There are many technical reasons for why they are such a poor match for powering a car or truck (besides weight) that I won't bore you with. The battery to keep an eye on is lithium iron phosphate, or LiFePo4. Its got several times the energy storage in a smaller and MUCH lighter package. The cost is not a big problem anymore either, since they last so much longer than the lead batteries and the price continues to fall. I hope to put my money where my mouth is on this too in the next couple years. I'd probably never walk or bike again if I could charge an electric car or truck off my roof
Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel
I would love to see a wind farm off shore if I lived there!
Stupid "NIMBY" people!
And as for the power company, I would think that if someone was worried about one on their back yard, the company should offer to help them get an electric car and then offer to power it for free as long as they live there.
A small price to pay to get a power plant operational!
To be completely honest, I wasn't too smart back then and I had my concerns about the project too. People can sometimes draw some pretty dumb conclusions based on a first impression, and I was one of them. Not that my single opinion made the difference, but part of me does regret not voicing support for the idea or at least making the effort to find out more about it.
Heard on the news today that oil could be at $200/barrel by next year. Time to work some more on the plans for the EV.....
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1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
Young pups...diesel .09 cents per gallon and gasoline at .20 for regular and .25 for high test.
Both had Ethyl, and the diesel was over 5000 PPM sulphur.
The good old days.
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86 F250 HD 6.9 IDI ATS turbo "not exactly" stock 4x4 T19 BW1345 3.55LS both ends D60 front, 10.25" Sterling rear, ram air, dual stacks.
and to think that back in '65 and '66 i remember the stations having "gas wars" where the price dropped from 25 cents a gallon of 90 octane leaded all the way down to 17 cents a gallon. made it reeeaaal hard to put over $3.50 worth in a car.
Young pups...diesel .09 cents per gallon and gasoline at .20 for regular and .25 for high test.
Both had Ethyl, and the diesel was over 5000 PPM sulphur.
The good old days.
And you all thought that by the 1990's we should have had flying cars that run on garbage
I'm not officially in the old guy club, but I remember when gas was under a buck. And I could cruise Main St in a truck that got 7 mpg all night with the spare change in my pocket. Them's were the days, I tell ya'. You young whippersnappers and your rock music and....
I'm not quite as old as some here, but I remember Dad paying $0.18 for super leaded. Of course, he only earned about 1/50th of what I do now.
If we stopped shipping just about everything halfway around the world and used vehicles the appropriate size for the task at hand, I bet oil would be much cheaper now than in the '60s when adjusted for inflation...
Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
