I'll agree, our 08' v10 is not a fast revving motor and does not feel as quick as our 6.2L Denali. With that said, I just got back yesterday from another trip and have towed an 8K-9K lb 27' enclosed trailer over 1200 miles in the last two weeks. Over numerous mountain passes ranging from sea level to 3,500 feet. The towing performance is incredible. It sucks down more fuel than my LBZ Duramax did but as far as all out speed on grades I truly don't feel it gives up anything. The Duramax was better at holding speeds without having to downshift but this 3v v10 / Torqshift setup is a serious towing machine. Very happy with my purchase and must admit I underestimated the towing capabilities of Ford's sweet 6.8L gasser... and the custom tunes aren't even finished yet.

 

Johnny Langton wrote...

Bore,stroke, intake manifold design,and camshaft specs all determine where an engine makes it power-where the cam is in relation to the valves means nothing.
JL

I understand, still learning.

Thanks,
RustyFuryIII

 

many people don't know what many of us with 05 and new v10's found out the hard way. that is some how in the pcm's programing, ford seems to have a hidden breakin code base. for 150 hours "apx.7,500 miles" mine also felt wimpie. then all of a sudden! it came to life and i mean it big time. one day under 150 hours it was a dog then all of a sudden it was night and day different.

infact we had tied it to the roller's at 1k found a wimpie number of around 250 rwhp when it came to life it had 287.6 on the ground. another long lost fte member was with me that day.his is a stick shift. he had 20 more then my auto trans.

immo there most be a breakin code that holds it back letting the engine and trans to all wear in properly. another thing people fail to understand. is that the truck or car of today needs time to adjust it self to how you drive. most of the time i have found it to be about 100 miles. reflash the pcm. change or disconect the battery it needs time to relearn how the owner drives it. this can also be felt when a different driver drives them.[ say driver 1 has a lead right foot but driver 2 drives with a raw egg under the go pedal. the pcm readjusts to a diferent driver's stratagy of how the gas pedal is used and rests itself for that driver.

give the newer obd 2 cars some time. they are not what many of us are used to for a long time now. and each year the pcm controls get tighter. this can be also felt by just going to a say 05 to a 06. different drive stratagy . it's like the difference of going from a car with a carberator then going right into a f.i. for the first time.
geppers how long has it been since any of us has driven a car or truck with a CARBERATOR? for me the last one i had was my 85 mustang gt. on those a stick had a holly. auto had tbfi.

 

don't push that tune to far. esp. the trans programimg part. DO NOT take out the torque reduction setting. the trans can not handle it. also don't twist the line pressure up to far." about 10% max" if it's twisted to far you will feel the clutchs start to engage and then feel them act as if the trans shifted out of gear and back in again and again till you take your foot out of it.
another fact is the stock clutches are designed to last as the factory sets the trans program . to much or 2 little the 5r110w will bun up the clutch packs.

word of advise here. many dealers are following fords NO mod. warrenty rules for claims and they can tell if the pcm has been reflashed or programing redone. they can tell you the date and milage the work to it was done.
even the air bag pcm can tell them how the car was driven. at what speed for about 1 min in a continual loop.

yes guys n gals! we are living with a small black box in our rides and have been for as many years as we have had air bags. while it was ment to tell a insurance company how the car was being driven before a accident in figureing out who is to blame in a hit. speed, braking and g-force, even steering direction at impact. it's only a very short loop but it can hurt us.

gm's and others with north star are even worse off then us. the gm owner when installing a reflash tuner most pull the onstar fuse or gm getts told right then and there some on is altering the vechicle's pcm programing. they "gm" can even update /reflash the pcm while your driving the car/truck this is what obd 3 "which isn't ery far off" will even tell them more.

 

Don't forget your tin-foil hat...the aliens are watching and can control you mind too.
I've never seen the volume of horsecrap posted on the web by people that have no clue about the control system or how these things work until I started reading here. No wonder most people are confused as hell when they read here..
THERE IS NO BREAK-IN PROGRAMMING OF ANY KIND IN THE OEM PCM SOFTWARE-PERIOD! THE TORQUE REDUCTION STRATEGY IS PRESENT ONLY FOR COMFORT AND NVH REASONS,NOT FOR DURABILITY. THE PCM DOES NOT- I REPEAT-DOES NOT HAVE ANY KIND OF ODOMETER TRACKING. IT DOES HAVE A FLASH COUNTER, BUT IT IN NO WAY CAN TELL THEM WHAT DATE OR MILEAGE THAT THE PCM WAS REFLASHED AT.
I'm not replying anymore-this is all fact,and I have no reason to prove any of it-the facts are out there for you to find if you take off the tin-foil hat and look.
JL

 

time to wake up to what the dealer tech's all know. for me it's from 40 years of being a tech and factory trouble shooter factory dsm. and you sir are dead! wrong we do have black boxes and many of the old times will agree with me as we all have felt

and by the way. when the pcm gets reflashed out side by a non dealer there is a code that changes and goes blank.which tells the dealer tech.the pcm is altered, you can't find it without the builders own code scan programs.

 

Dealer techs are the most misinformed, ignorant morons on the planet when it comes to the control systems in these vehicles, and how they work. I can't even count how many times I've fixed things behind "Ford MASTER techs" that completely ignorant.The people I've fixed these things for all swore that there was no way their "Ford MASTER Tech" could have gotten it wrong.
There are very few Ford dealer techs that are more than monkeys with tools.
JL

 

Be very careful who on this site you are calling morons.....it is against the guidelines for personal insults....and YOU do not know, who on this site...... are dealer techs...knock it off...


Your last line

 

Tim-I've worked behind them fixing more than you can imagine-and ALL of it was just ignorant stuff that simple common sense tells you is wrong.
So,yeah,I've got a really sour taste with ALL of them. There are some good Ford techs out there, but for the other 99% of them-I stand by that last line.
JL

 

And in our previous discussions about this, you have offered no proof that you know, line-for-line, what the actual software is doing.

You can talk about fuel/timing maps all you want, and how there isn't a map for the (apparently non-existent) break-in period. That doesn't mean the break-in period doesn't exist.

Personal question: Is there a separate advance/fuel map for the octane plug in my '96 t-bird or '97 Cougar?


The fact remains, people who've rebuilt engines and done all sorts of other things either professionally or DIY, see an increase in MPGs and power around the 7500 mile or 150 hour mark on the 3-valve V10.

They know what breaking-in a motor feels like, and this is NOT a mechanical break-in phenomenon.

I'll repeat an earlier question from another thread, that you skirted oh-so-well.

Have you looked, line-for-line, at the code in the '05 and/or '06 3-valve V10 PCM? I mean REALLY actually factually, LOOKED at every line and made sure there's no "if (hours<150) pedal=pedal-X;" - Fully showing my ignorance, because I have no idea what the controller in the PCM actually is. Ford doesn't build their own microprocessor, does it? They have to use a somewhat standard micro, even if it's customized.

The last time, you just walked away from the question without answering it.

And again, I'll re-phrase the original key issue here.

Why is it, when long-time members here who owned 2-valve V10s, trade up to a 3-valver, and report a surge in MPGs and power around the 7500 mile or 150 hour mark?

They noticed no such power increase with their 2-valvers, just the normal mechanical loosening-up.

Those who've experienced it say it's like flipping a switch.

No one can find a reason for it, except to point to the PCM.

If you observe a behavior, and you have multiple people reporting it, and there is no other obvious/rational cause, AND you haven't examined these people's PCMs for yourself, how do you explain it?

--

MODERATOR's NOTE:

I am continually challenged with having to decide which party is wrong in an argument. I don't bother figuring out which is technically correct, because I am not infallible.

It is my understanding that this is a community site. Arrogance always looses.

 

So you are saying that most of the good pi$$in' matches end in a tie???

 

Understand I do NOT care who you have worked behind or beneath...I care about YOU following the guidelines.
This is not negotiable.
This is the last warning.

 

Ever heard of a "placebo"? In scientific studies it's proven that when someone believes that something will be affected by said "placebo", then they will be willing to bet their life on it. You can tell them anything,and if they believe it,they'll swear it's fact. That's what you have going on here. "Mr xxxx" said that his truck runs better after 7500 miles-it's that "break-in" programming"...you know..mine actually feels a little better now,and holy crap! it's got just over 7500 miles now-that's gotta be it! "Mr xxxx" is a Ford "MASTER TECH"-he knows this stuff.And my friend's,brother-in-law's,cousin's friend says his did the same thing-it's gotta be true.
Perfect example-Cold Air induction kits-we all know how well those work,and how much the DON'T gain-yet everybody that gets one WANTS to believe that it'll work,and amazingly-they will swear that it does make a gain. I'd be willing to bet that if you put them on a polygraph-they'd pass it if asked if the CAI gave them a power gain. Doesn't mean it does-but they are CERTAIN that it does.
I personally have not gone through every single line of code,and I will not. It's not that simple anyway-this isn't simplistic PC software you're talking about here.It's all written in hexadecimal. This mythical function you guys are referring to would be listed in the Ford calibrator reference (Strategy Guidebook) for the '05-'06 V10.
Something else you're forgetting....the dealer has the ability to reset the hourmeter on the cluster when its in for service,and I can too with the correct aftermarket tools. If one did that-they by your "theory"-the PCM would revert back to "break-in" programming...same would happen if one reflashed the PCM for service.
JL

 

Moron was the wrong word to use there-for that I apologize.
But,calling someone Ignorant is not an insult.

Ignorant:
1-lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.
2-lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.
3-uninformed; unaware.
4-due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

That is not an insult. Someone is ignorant until they are taught otherwise-if they continue to be ignorant after being taught-then they're willingly ignorant,and there's no helping them at all.
JL

 

Not to get in the middle of all this and to try to add something constructive. I would have to agree with JL , There is nothing in the processor code that I see that would be related to a 7500 mile break in period. I do suspect that there maybe an increase in power once mechanical break in periods are complete via engine, trans , axle. I would also go out on a limb here and suggest maybe some of the increase could be related to changes in the Adaptive learning, Drive by wire strategies(which is torque demand driven), and trans torque reduction stratagies. Just my 2 cents here. For me; I have been extremely impressed with the 3v V10. No doubt about it.....