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  #1  
Old 04-07-2008, 06:07 PM
F2Fifteee F2Fifteee is offline
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1999 F250 SuperDuty 5.4 Timing Question

I recently rebuilt my 5.4, 2 valve, OHC engine. I was really disappointed to see the lack of a pointer or index mark to pinpoint the timing location for each timing gear in relation to the casting or some reference other that 11:00 and 1:00( or something like that) and then turn the crank with your FORD TOOL. Considering not everyone has a FORD TOOL to orientate the crank and it is really easy to be off one tooth in either direction and still run it left me just a little uncertain. I took pictures and reassembled in the same location and turned by hand several times.
I assembled the engine and it runs and didn't crash and sound OK but it runs rich on #1 Bank and I get no other codes.

My Question is: If I have that passenger side head cam gear off one tooth would it cause a running rich condition on that bank?

I am pulling as steady 17 inches of mercury at idle for a vacuum.

History: I installed new coils, plugs, new O2 sensors and swapped new injectors from driver side to passenger and it remains that the driver side bank is running and the passenger side, at least the first 3 cylinders seem to be dead at idle. The truck runs slightly rough and once I drive it I get "Bank 1 Running Rich" Camping seasons around the corner HELP!
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  #2  
Old 04-08-2008, 01:15 PM
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Johnny Langton Johnny Langton is offline
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Timing the cams on a modular is very easy. There are marks on the camshaft sprockets,and the crankshaft sprocket for proper alignment.No Ford tools are needed at all.
It is possible to have the cams one tooth off and it still run,and run "OK". Power will ultimately be down,and it'll seem to accelerate really weak in the higher end of the RPM range. I worked on a '96 4.6L Cougar with the passenger side camshaft that was off by one tooth,and it ran pretty good,just wasn't right. it had slipped by one tooth during reassembly,and the owner hadn't noticed.
JL
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  #3  
Old 04-08-2008, 02:19 PM
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I am no mechanic, but I'd be hard pressed to explain how having one cam "off one tooth" will make a bank run rich. Cam timing does not control your fuel/air mixture, just the opening and closing of the valves. In other words, a 14.7:1 mix remains 14.7:1 whether the intake valve opens early, late or on time.

If your only indicator of running rich is the codes, I would swap the O2 sensors, see if the bad code doesn't follow a sensor to the other side.

Otherwise, If one bank runs poor, start looking at what those 4 cylinders have in common. Intake plenum, cam, fuel rail, exhaust header/manifold - everything down to the Y-pipe.
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Old 04-08-2008, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by redford View Post
I am no mechanic, but I'd be hard pressed to explain how having one cam "off one tooth" will make a bank run rich. Cam timing does not control your fuel/air mixture, just the opening and closing of the valves. In other words, a 14.7:1 mix remains 14.7:1 whether the intake valve opens early, late or on time.

If your only indicator of running rich is the codes, I would swap the O2 sensors, see if the bad code doesn't follow a sensor to the other side.

Otherwise, If one bank runs poor, start looking at what those 4 cylinders have in common. Intake plenum, cam, fuel rail, exhaust header/manifold - everything down to the Y-pipe.
ole redford kind smart aint he!!!
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Old 04-08-2008, 04:40 PM
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ole redford kind smart aint he!!!
Uh.....no.

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Old 04-08-2008, 04:57 PM
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did you do that driving thing to re teach the computer????
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Old 04-08-2008, 07:07 PM
F2Fifteee F2Fifteee is offline
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Yes I did drive it for a full tank of gas. I was going to try swapping the 02 sensors tonite but it is raining here.

Thank you for your response, I understand your point that the compression ratio will not change or fuel mixture but the firing event will, which will effect proper combustion, in turn allows to much fuel down the pipe exposing the O2 sensor to more O2 than it would like to see. Just a hunch which I am just trying to get my arms around this issue.

I am not sure how the calibration map is laid out or what it defaults to. Does the ECU or control module pull fuel when the O2 sensor is in the rich condition?

It is a single exhaust, new exhaust manifolds, and the intake checked out to be OK. I guess I could pull the Y pipe off again.. Who knows maybe one of my kids stuffed a rag down the pipe..

Also I can smell excess fuel occasionally so I believe it is running rich and runs rough at idle but the engine light goes on ( and stays on) once you start down the road a couple of miles.

Maybe it is a wire harness issue which I checked out the harness to find nothing that jumped out at me, but I am not convinced it is not the issue yet.

Also the OEM Ford manual states using a Ford tool to rotate the crank then lock it in position on a stud. (It shows a picture of where the cam should be located then rotate the crank counter clockwise) The problem is that after you rotate the crank the next picture does not accurately show the cam position or make reference to where the crank key way should be. Even the post check picture of the cams are not even the correct cam gears and again makes no verbal reference to the crank key way in relation to the cams. The layout of the OEM book is a nightmare and your constantly paging from one end to the other to find. I have had other Ford OEM manuals and this one bites! But the wiring diagram manual is damn good!

Well thanks again gentlemen! Sometimes it helps to get a different look at these things when you get frustrated!


Also I was shocked to see the cam gears pressed on the the cam so the gear is not offered by Ford so instead of a 20 dollar cam gear I would be stuck purchasing a $680 cam with gear along with several $100 to change the remaining timing components. YUK.
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Old 04-20-2008, 11:22 AM
F2Fifteee F2Fifteee is offline
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Hey Johnny:
I would like to pick your brain on the timing of my 5.4. I did isolate that the timing is off and is advanced on that bank. You seem to have a handle on the timing and I am still rather confused when I read the OEM Ford Service Manual.

It states in the book that the LH cam to be set at 12:00. The RH cam to be set a 11:00
Position the crankshaft with the crankshaft holding tool and turn counter clockwise then it shows a picture of locking the tool on a metal dowel. Before moving the crank it displays a picture of the crank key at 12:00 then rotating counter clockwise not indicating this new position.
My question is this new crankshaft position TDC?

The service manual makes no reference to TDC or the crank key position.

What do you do without the Ford Tool.
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Old 04-20-2008, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F2Fifteee View Post
Hey Johnny:
I would like to pick your brain on the timing of my 5.4. I did isolate that the timing is off and is advanced on that bank. You seem to have a handle on the timing and I am still rather confused when I read the OEM Ford Service Manual.

It states in the book that the LH cam to be set at 12:00. The RH cam to be set a 11:00
Position the crankshaft with the crankshaft holding tool and turn counter clockwise then it shows a picture of locking the tool on a metal dowel. Before moving the crank it displays a picture of the crank key at 12:00 then rotating counter clockwise not indicating this new position.
My question is this new crankshaft position TDC?

The service manual makes no reference to TDC or the crank key position.

What do you do without the Ford Tool.
Each cam gear has a "mark" on it for the "colored" chainlink(it's copper colored),and the crank sprocket also has a "mark" on it for the other "colored" link.
Here's how I do it...
Place the crankshaft sprocket on the crankshaft,and turn the crank until the "mark" on the crankshaft sprocket is at approx 4 o'clock. This will have the engine in a position where you can turn the camshafts and not have a valve contact a piston. The you'll need to have all of the tensioners and chains ready to go on, and get the marks all lined up. It's not the easiest thing to do and still keep the marks lined up, but in that position-it's the easiest.
JL
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Old 04-22-2008, 09:43 PM
F2Fifteee F2Fifteee is offline
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I figured it out and Yes with the timing off a couple of teeth it will run rich

Johnny thanks for the info but I figured it out. This is how I did it. I plumbed a line indicating the 12:00 position. Then I had a degree wheel which I could dial in 30 degrees for 11:00 and the plumbed line for 12:00. I knew at this point the cams were 99% correct.
I positioned the crank as close to the picture as I thought which is kind of winging it. I realize why Ford can get away with giving no accurate positions for the components because it depend on the chain timing links and the distance/relationship to keep you honest.
When I tried to put the chain on, both cams appeared to be 2 teeth off. I knew this not to be true so I rotated the crank to align the timing chain links.

I feel like a dummy because I missed the obvious all along. With other engine you are so used to making sure all the timing gears are aligned you really don't care about the chain. The chain is the critical component in setting your timing with this system.
This engine was repaired before ( I could tell). When I purchased it used it was always a pooch and the compression was lower on the #1 bank vs the #2 bank which I initially attributed to burned valves, so I reassembled it the same way. This engine since I owned it never had the timing set correctly. This is why my mileage and performance was not comparable to other F250 Super Duty's older or newer with a 5.4.
Now this bugger is like a new truck! I have more power and I am still in the process of calculating mileage.
Thanks for the response and I appreciate all the input! WooHooooo!!
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:02 AM
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Excellent-good to hear you found it,and that nothing was damaged in the mix-up.
JL
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Old 04-23-2008, 07:02 AM
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