How about a compromise? People who use their trucks as family haulers quit b*tching about mpg and the people who use their trucks as toys quit b*tching about the high price of gas....
What I'd like to see in the '09 lineup? A stripped down barebones truck like they used to make. An XL with no bells and whistles for those of us who want a truck to use as a truck and not have leather seats, pw, pl, A/C, etc....
Exactly what i have been saying the entire time, couldnt have said it better myself...
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99' F-150 Super Cab Step Side
5.4l/4R70W (previously a 4.6l romeo)
Cold Air Kit
Flowmaster 50 series dual exhaust
Edge w/Attitude Programmer
900LB add a leaf rear springs
Lariet LE leather front captains chairs
Alpine cd player
Alpine 6x9 3 way speakers (all 4 doors)
10" L7 Kicker Sub
1400 watt Lanzar dual channel amp.
32" Micky Thompson MTZ's
Someone driving the truck for work should either - a find another job at another company that pays more for said work, or b, if it's their company, raise the prices to take into consideration the fuel prices. All industries are doing this. and someone who drives a 12 mpg truck for work and personal use, should get a more economical car for the personal use part. i would never use my truck for work, or a work vehicle for recreation (although i have gotten some recreation out of some rental neons on business/work trips).
And if you're going to take into account what could become with 32000 dollars over 8 years, why not go all the way, say, take the scenario of - what if you're the second Bill Gates, buy a program cheap with that 32000 dollars and turn it into billions over the period of 8 years? wouldn't you be glad you saved all that money on gas?
Plus, if your guy that uses a truck for work could be using a truck that gets 24mpg instead of one that gets 12mpg, doesn't that mean he's using much too much truck for the job? there are rangers out there working day in and day out, but there are a lot of foreman type halfton trucks out there that do nothing but go over a dirt road with 100 lbs worth of cargo every day.
I dare you to show me a person who needs the full 11000 lbs towing capacity of the F150 or the 3000lb payload day in and day out, and the 32000 dollar theoretical loss in mpg over 8 years makes it impossible for this person to do business anymore. if raising the prices means you go out of business, maybe that business wasn't meant for you, let someone who has figured out a way of doing things more efficient than you and who can survive the 32000 dollar debt, handle that kind of business. its called competition. Go find something else to do that won't require a truck and will save you 32,000 dollars over 8 years.
I highly doubt that the fact all half ton trucks get 12-14 mpg is gonna wipe out all of the foremans out there when gas goes up a buck.
If a guy can cut operating costs, he is more efficient. He can undercut the competition, get more jobs, make more money.
15-16 MPG in this day and age is downright unacceptable. With your way of thinking, Ford better change. Or else shut the doors. Because there are other companies that will offer a truck that'll get 20+MPG.
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93 F One Fiddy- 5.0/AOD/3.55 230K OEM
93 F Two Fiddy Scab- 7.3/ZF5/4.10/Sidewinder II,94 Turbo pump,G Inj's, Velvet Ride, Turbo Bumper, Alcoa's
85 F Two Fiddy-6.9/C6/3.54/ Holley Red, Racor, Soup Bowl,AutoJet 3",Ride Rite Rear
Not when loaded, thats what a trucks general purpose is to work, and i bet none of those other trucks get better mileage when pulling or hauling....
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99' F-150 Super Cab Step Side
5.4l/4R70W (previously a 4.6l romeo)
Cold Air Kit
Flowmaster 50 series dual exhaust
Edge w/Attitude Programmer
900LB add a leaf rear springs
Lariet LE leather front captains chairs
Alpine cd player
Alpine 6x9 3 way speakers (all 4 doors)
10" L7 Kicker Sub
1400 watt Lanzar dual channel amp.
32" Micky Thompson MTZ's
I have to disagree with that! My Roush F150 is way more fun at any speed than the Escort was. Its faster than a Mustang GT by a long shot, out handles most cars due to it's Roush suspension and the tires I have on it. While its not a 12 second truck (in the 13s now and working on 12), it will handle corners better than the muscle cars of yester-year and do it with more comfort and safety. Its not "boring" in the least... not by a looooooonnnngggg shot. Same goes for the Lightning... not boring at all.
I don't drive enough that mileage is a bit of concern to me. Sometimes I put 50-75 miles on my vehicles in a week, sometimes I put 0 miles on them.
What 4 cylinder cars do you have that get 25 mpg at 90?
That's just a small sampling of how my household saves money and it racks up literally thousands of dollars each year we put away. At the current rate of savings I can retire much earlier than my peers making the same income by moving to a location when we retire that has a lower cost of living. While gas certainly could impact things if I drove more... positive decisions in my financial life far outweigh the negatives of gas prices. Personally I believe if most people would take a hard look at their finances, making tough inventory of their financial life, they'd be less inclined to complain about fuel.
Excellent post despite the thread drift. I am 56 this month, started working in the pension business when I was 22--so I got an understanding of long-term money. And I retired last year from that job, with a pension and a 401(k) that will get me thru if I choose not to work. No debt, no mortgage, and plenty in the bank to get my kid thru college (he's a sophomore now).
First, most truck owners do not have a Roush truck or a Lightning, and most need a vehicle to drive every day, lots of miles. A truck like yours would be more fun than an Escort, no doubt--we had my dad's Escort wagon for a few months after he passed away, and it was not much fun. But the typical F150 ain't gonna be much fun to drive either. I love my '02 E150, for carrying stuff, and going on vacations packed with bicycles and other *stuff*.
Our current high-mpg cars are a BMW 318ti (bought this one for my son). I got 34.57 mpg driving it home from NC to Michigan, averaging about 77 mph, so definitely over 30 mpg, albeit on premium gas, at 80. 90 mph number of 25+ is based on a partial tank type calculation, but I think the car is up to it. And on an autocross course, I'd give it a shot against your beast.
My wife is facing a 43-mile commute in the next couple years when her job location moves. That is one way, so a daily of 86 miles. Sold her beloved '98 Duratec Sable and bought her a 2007 Honda Civic, EPA ratings of 30 and 40, and a front end that looks like a little NASCAR stocker. So far, it seems to get better mileage than the BMW, and on regular gas.
And in addition to my Ford E150, I have a 2003 Mazda Protege5 wagon (now THIS is what the Escort wagon should have been), but a relative gas hog (auto trans), only about 30 mpg at 70 from what I can tell. And my '91 BMW 318is, another 4-cylinder peashooter that I used as a commuter for many years, now relegated to toy status. Similar mileage to the Protege. All four of our cars fall between 2600 and 2800 lbs, and between 1.8 and 2.0 liters, and all four are great handlers and fun to drive.
Your situation is having a fast truck to play with, and limiting the miles. Mine is having some more economical cars that we can take on a long road trip for a weekend, have a blast with on a twisty road (the BMW's are killer drivers), and rev to the redline all day without becoming public enemy #1.
Back in 1972, I remember going from a hotrod '68 Olds 442 to an MGB, which was REALLY a slug, but a riot because I could drive it floored all day and attract little attention. Then to a '66 Corvette, a 390 2-seat AMX, couple Chrysler Hemi cars, and then a Gremlin when my ex and I had to cash out and buy a house. (The Gremlin was definitely *not fun*)
And I like trucks a lot as well, but they don't make much sense as daily drivers unless you are really using them as trucks.
Point is that people that complain about mpg need to get a gasmizer car.... im in college working on a degree in mechanical engineering, i work for everything i have, and I get absolutly zero money from the rents for college other than there insurance for medical stuff....
So your basically asking a broke college student for money bud... aint going to happen....
95% of people that drive these trucks just drive them cause they like to drive trucks...great, i do the same thing... but if its a thing about money now then get something different, cause its never going to get good gas mileage...
basically you cant have your cake and eat it to...
When I was in college, I was driving 10 and 12 mpg muscle cars, but that was research, because I wrote my college thesis on "the rise and fall of the musclecar" back in 1974, when we were waiting in line for gasoline. I got married and was self-supporting in 1972, at age 20, so I appreciate your position. I'd also suggest you crunch some numbers and see if you wouldn't be better off in a more economical vehicle, especially if you end up having to pay for your own medical insurance, buy a house, raise a kid or three, etc...
Sounds like you need your money (and I would say high gas mileage) more than I do...
And being an aspiring mechanical engineer, maybe you'll be the one to invent the 50 mpg full size truck. (You can work with my son, who's a sophomore and majoring in Chemical Engineering and/or Materials Science...)
Ya, my finace is a 4.0 in chemical engineering, both of has a year left... so money probably wont be to much of an issue....
My entire point is that ford makes trucks that get good gas milage, they are v6 2wd reg cab short beds....
If you think you need to have a truck that hauls the family and has a large towing capacity you are going to pay with miliage... which i do and dont regret one bit... i like have a vehicle that will do anything i ask of it and never let me down...which is what ford has been about for as long as i can remember...
You will never see me complain about poor miliage, if i do then i need to buy a better vehicle... its the people that are complaining are the ones that need to get a clue... they need to switch there vehicles....
I also have a CBR 954rr that i ride that gets amazing fuel miliage in the summer...
If people are so concerend with saving money and hauling famillys then get a hybrid or a mini van....
but its just my .02
What school does your son go to?
__________________
99' F-150 Super Cab Step Side
5.4l/4R70W (previously a 4.6l romeo)
Cold Air Kit
Flowmaster 50 series dual exhaust
Edge w/Attitude Programmer
900LB add a leaf rear springs
Lariet LE leather front captains chairs
Alpine cd player
Alpine 6x9 3 way speakers (all 4 doors)
10" L7 Kicker Sub
1400 watt Lanzar dual channel amp.
32" Micky Thompson MTZ's
I'd also suggest you crunch some numbers and see if you wouldn't be better off in a more economical vehicle, especially if you end up having to pay for your own medical insurance, buy a house, raise a kid or three, etc...
George
just wanna say that im in college and i hit a guy who stopped on the highway, obvi my fault and a guy hit me another time, and the insurance co still havent settled that one, but either way if i drove cars id be on my third car by now, instead i had to buy a new axle shaft from when the guy hit me, so as it turned out it, it was much more economical to drive a truck for me, just another way of looking at it..... oh im a ce major btw
...the idea is a truck that gets 24 mpg which will do nearly the same amount of real work that a 12 mpg truck can do...something like a stripper F150, weighing what a 1980 F150 did, and with a 4.4 liter diesel engine or some EcoBoost thing, or like that. You might lose the NASCAR race truck vibe, but it would still be a real truck.
My old 1978 F100, 300 inch six, 4 speed O/D stick, would get an honest 22-23 mpg on the freeway....add injection, computerized engine controls, variable valve timing, another gear or two in the trans, and I'd bet it would easily get 25 mpg. I bought that truck new to use as an unloaded commuter and it really was as cheap to run as a Chevy Nova would have been. Crank windows, rubber mats, but it did have A/C.
Add safety reinforcements since your 1978 truck would get demolished by today's safety standards; and EPA emission controlls to make it comply with today's "save the planet" emissions, and your 1978 truck engine is gonna make 100hp and 200tq, and have a helluva time working to keep that truck at highway speeds.
Today's XL's are basically what you want, they are stripped down pretty heavily, they have maybe 100 lbs worth of "accessories" that my 1987 (or your 1978) didn't have that could be shaved off. And I could get just over 20mpg in my old XLT 5.4 2wd on the highway (trip from MN to AZ i averaged 22mpg, trip from AZ to MN i averaged 11 towing 7000lbs and hauling ass); when I keep saying 12mpg is basically meaning city mpg, loaded down with equipment. How much does your truck get in the city? my old truck got 16mpg empty if I kept my foot out of it. If all you're wanting is 24mpg highway, a strip down XL will do just shy of that all day long, empty, cruising at 65.
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2000 Excursion Limited 4x4 V10 - soon to not be stock anymore.
2004 F150 XLT screw 4x4 5.4 - 2.5 leveling kit, 34.5" BFGs - Gone
2004 mach1 mustang, holding the garage floor in place.
If a guy can cut operating costs, he is more efficient. He can undercut the competition, get more jobs, make more money.
15-16 MPG in this day and age is downright unacceptable. With your way of thinking, Ford better change. Or else shut the doors. Because there are other companies that will offer a truck that'll get 20+MPG.
when ford or another company finds a way to make a truck that gets 20+mpg (city loaded down with equipment), I'm sure all other companies will follow suit soon. Right now, no other companies do anywhere close. The technology to move 5000lbs bricks through the air on 2 teaspoons of gas isn't there yet.
there are other companies that will offer 20+mpg half tons in the future - but they don't yet. And ford is going to be one of those companies.
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2000 Excursion Limited 4x4 V10 - soon to not be stock anymore.
2004 F150 XLT screw 4x4 5.4 - 2.5 leveling kit, 34.5" BFGs - Gone
2004 mach1 mustang, holding the garage floor in place.
Add safety reinforcements since your 1978 truck would get demolished by today's safety standards; and EPA emission controlls to make it comply with today's "save the planet" emissions, and your 1978 truck engine is gonna make 100hp and 200tq, and have a helluva time working to keep that truck at highway speeds.
Today's XL's are basically what you want, they are stripped down pretty heavily, they have maybe 100 lbs worth of "accessories" that my 1987 (or your 1978) didn't have that could be shaved off. And I could get just over 20mpg in my old XLT 5.4 2wd on the highway (trip from MN to AZ i averaged 22mpg, trip from AZ to MN i averaged 11 towing 7000lbs and hauling ass); when I keep saying 12mpg is basically meaning city mpg, loaded down with equipment. How much does your truck get in the city? my old truck got 16mpg empty if I kept my foot out of it. If all you're wanting is 24mpg highway, a strip down XL will do just shy of that all day long, empty, cruising at 65.
Agree on the safety reinforcements, but with EFI and modern engine electronics, together with transmission technology, engines are putting out MORE power than in the old days of distributors and carburetors, and cars get far better mileage. Compare a current Mustang GT with a 289 or 390 Mustang from the late 60's...although it weighs a lot more (safety and luxury stuff), it will go faster, start way more reliably in Michigan winters, need a lot less maintenance, and get way better gas mileage. Likewise, my '02 E150 will get 17-18.5 mpg on the freeway, while being at least 600 lbs heavier than my old '86 GMC van with a doggy 305 that got 13 mpg...
If Ford were to concentrate on gas mileage with their trucks instead of 8000 horsepower, I'm sure there are improvements to be had. 25 mpg freeway with a medium-sized load should be doable...
The advent of EFI on the 4.9 inline 6 resulted in lower MPG in the start of 1990s. Very little weight change happened between 1985 and 1992 and yet the rating went down from the low 20s to the high teens.
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1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
This was a ford rep, and i wasnt sure if they had released numbers yet. i really hope its not 310. cuz unfortunately thats what alot of people look at. they say "o! well the tundra has 380 hp. and they dodge has 360! man ford sucks with only 310." Personally i like the 5.4 how it is. its got plenty of power. but if ford wants to keep goin then they have to satisfy the idiots.
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2005 Cummins 4x4. IS GONE!!
Previous truck:04 F-250 PS 4x4. miss it badly
Ryan
but with EFI and modern engine electronics, together with transmission technology, engines are putting out MORE power than in the old days of distributors and carburetors, and cars get far better mileage....If Ford were to concentrate on gas mileage with their trucks instead of 8000 horsepower, I'm sure there are improvements to be had. 25 mpg freeway with a medium-sized load should be doable...
George
Yo George - you hit the nail on the head. Instead of using all the new technology to increase horsepower to ridiculous levels (and keep gas mileage about the same), the tech could have been use to hold performance constant and increase efficiency.
Yo George - you hit the nail on the head. Instead of using all the new technology to increase horsepower to ridiculous levels (and keep gas mileage about the same), the tech could have been use to hold performance constant and increase efficiency.
What i've been saying all along...
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2007 Lariat screw - tri coat met - chrome package - Black leather captains chairs - sunroof - audiophile
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