I make a living with my truck too. But usually only drive 200-250 miles per week on average. Can't imagine using anything less than a true 8' box. Even the newer 8' boxes have been narrowed lately. I often use every inch of my box when tools are involved.
I'm not a fan of the prius, but diesel locomotives are efficient not just because of the low rolling resistance. The EMD powertrain combines a VERY wide electric gear ratio with low efficiency loss to produce one of the most effective pulling machines ever made. As for the slow acceleration, have you seen what those suckers can pull???? Not to mention the 25 year TBO (time before overhaul). If you want hard acceleration, put a capacitor bank in there and try to find a V8 that can compare.
EMD locomotives are over 35% efficient at the wheels (consistently), lets see something like that for the road and maybe I'll part with my cash for a new rig. Until then, my old beast will be kept alive.
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1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
How about a compromise? People who use their trucks as family haulers quit b*tching about mpg and the people who use their trucks as toys quit b*tching about the high price of gas....
What I'd like to see in the '09 lineup? A stripped down barebones truck like they used to make. An XL with no bells and whistles for those of us who want a truck to use as a truck and not have leather seats, pw, pl, A/C, etc....
How about everyone who thinks they need 8000 hp to tow their 5000 lb trailers quites whining too then?
Don't they already make a xl with few bells and whistles? They've got them on the lots around here....
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2007 Lariat screw - tri coat met - chrome package - Black leather captains chairs - sunroof - audiophile
MPG shouldnt be an issue, people just need to stop using trucks as family cars and as haulers for things, and the ones that do use them as family haulers need to shut up about mpg... i use myne for everyday driving and i dont care about the mpg.. it is what it is... go get a damn hybrid...
My entire life I have seen pickup trucks used as family vehicles and haulers of things. That is what they were designed to do and they fulfill their purpose very well. MPG is a genuine concern unless your name is Rockefeller or Gates. Oil and money are both scarce commodities for the rest of us.
How about everyone who thinks they need 8000 hp to tow their 5000 lb trailers quites whining too then?
Don't they already make a xl with few bells and whistles? They've got them on the lots around here....
I *need* 8000hp, and I don't complain about gas. I enjoy the gas prices. I've told myself, when gas hits 4 bucks a gallon, I'm going V10 shopping. people are so obsessed over how much money they're spending on gas, they forget to look at the grand scheme.
if gas goes from 3 dollars to 4 dollars a gallon, using simple math, at 12000 miles per year and 12mpg, you're going to be spending 1000 bucks more per year on gas. that's less than 100 bucks per month. compare that to your car payment or insurance payment, and think. We're talking about new/upcoming trucks here. If under 100 bucks per month difference is what's gonna make or break your decision of buying a new 30,000 dollar truck, you're looking at the wrong kind of vehicle.
If 80something bucks a month in operating costs is enough to stop you from driving a certain vehicle, maybe you should look into another type of vehicle to begin with. don't give me the family crap; 4-5 people can fit just fine in a sedan, especially when 2-3 of them are kids. There are plenty of crossovers out there that get better mpg and are roomy, there are plenty of minivans out there that can fit a whole football team, and don't use this much gas. Instead people buy these kinds of vehicles and expect the vehicle to change because they didn't make an informed decision when they purchased it.
whining on the internet for gas mileage on a certain type of vehicle is much like having a conversation with your dog asking him to poop less cause you're tired of cleaning it up.
Manufacturers see statistics, and base things on what sells. if you go into a ford dealership, buy that crewcab 4x4 f350 v10 optioned out to BFE and back, and then you whine about MPG, guess what, your dollar counts towards the number of people that prefer power/towing capacity/comfort/etc over those that prefer MPG. simply put, if you want MPG, get an economical car.
As for the person who wanted the strip down no bells and whistles version, i agree with you. I too long for a truck that's pretty much already gutted out, no headliner, no carpet (just rubber) no radio, no ac no nada, that'd make a great toy, and while XLs are available, they're rarely available in the exact configuration you want them - whatever engine you want, whatever tranny and whatever gears you want. With that I agree - we should have the freedom of choosing options for ourselves, moreso than we do now.
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2004 F150 XLT screw 4x4 5.4 - 2.5 leveling kit, 34.5" BFGs
2004 mach1 mustang, every bolt on in the world...
Order whatever you want....since not too many people want that why would Ford prebuild them and HOPE they sell?? DDoesn't make much sense to me....just my .02
Someone who drives a 12 mpg truck for work and personal use and logs say, 24k miles per year, is going to have to buy 2000 gallons of gas per year at a cool $8000. Over an 8-year span, totalling almost 200k miles on the truck, that is $64,000 out the tailpipe. (And gas won't stay at $4 for that 8 years...)
If that same guy could get 24 mpg, he would be saving $32,000 over that 8 years, which, if invested, could run up to well over $50k at the end of that period. This might help buy you medical benefits when you retire, put a kid through college, or fund a couple years in a nursing home for your ailing wife. That is really the *grand scheme*--it's not about $100 a month. And sending your dollars to the middle east (or slowly selling them our country via debt) is hardly a noble cause.
F150 sales were down 24% this past March compared to last year, and although a new 2009 model will likely have a little *blip* in sales, the big trend is downward for giant pickup trucks as fashion items... I'm in the Detroit area and my friends and neighbors are getting laid off, getting retirement buyouts, etc. left and right. Unless the Big Three get on the ball and create a new generation of usable trucks (and appealing cars) that get better gas mileage, the market will continue to shrink, and the Big Three will lose some major cash cows.
Yeah, V10's will be a great deal in the short term, but for every $10,000 rebate, Ford is losing profits that they would rather have in their pocket. And that part of the grand scheme will result in more lost jobs and possible belly-ups for more chunks of the Big Three.
Manufacturers see statistics, and base things on what sells. if you go into a ford dealership, buy that crewcab 4x4 f350 v10 optioned out to BFE and back, and then you whine about MPG, guess what, your dollar counts towards the number of people that prefer power/towing capacity/comfort/etc over those that prefer MPG. simply put, if you want MPG, get an economical car.
I see your point, but we are not talking about Super Dooty trucks here. The F-150 is a light, light duty truck. Last time I checked they were basically an SUV with a pickup bed.
Someone driving the truck for work should either - a find another job at another company that pays more for said work, or b, if it's their company, raise the prices to take into consideration the fuel prices. All industries are doing this. and someone who drives a 12 mpg truck for work and personal use, should get a more economical car for the personal use part. i would never use my truck for work, or a work vehicle for recreation (although i have gotten some recreation out of some rental neons on business/work trips).
And if you're going to take into account what could become with 32000 dollars over 8 years, why not go all the way, say, take the scenario of - what if you're the second Bill Gates, buy a program cheap with that 32000 dollars and turn it into billions over the period of 8 years? wouldn't you be glad you saved all that money on gas?
Plus, if your guy that uses a truck for work could be using a truck that gets 24mpg instead of one that gets 12mpg, doesn't that mean he's using much too much truck for the job? there are rangers out there working day in and day out, but there are a lot of foreman type halfton trucks out there that do nothing but go over a dirt road with 100 lbs worth of cargo every day.
I dare you to show me a person who needs the full 11000 lbs towing capacity of the F150 or the 3000lb payload day in and day out, and the 32000 dollar theoretical loss in mpg over 8 years makes it impossible for this person to do business anymore. if raising the prices means you go out of business, maybe that business wasn't meant for you, let someone who has figured out a way of doing things more efficient than you and who can survive the 32000 dollar debt, handle that kind of business. its called competition. Go find something else to do that won't require a truck and will save you 32,000 dollars over 8 years.
I highly doubt that the fact all half ton trucks get 12-14 mpg is gonna wipe out all of the foremans out there when gas goes up a buck.
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2004 F150 XLT screw 4x4 5.4 - 2.5 leveling kit, 34.5" BFGs
2004 mach1 mustang, every bolt on in the world...
I see your point, but we are not talking about Super Dooty trucks here. The F-150 is a light, light duty truck. Last time I checked they were basically an SUV with a pickup bed.
I used that truck as the example of extreme worst gas mileage vehicle. you basically vote with your dollar for/by buying whatever vehicle you bought. you buy a V10 F350 4x4 - you prefer vehicles getting 10mpg. you buy an F150, you prefer vehicles that get 15mpg and can't do as much. you buy a focus, you prefer a 30mpg vehicle that can get from point a to point b. if you buy a truck and whine that it doesn't get good gas mileage, or buy a focus and get pissed you have trouble getting your 24 ft boat out of the water; your vote doesn't count.
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2004 F150 XLT screw 4x4 5.4 - 2.5 leveling kit, 34.5" BFGs
2004 mach1 mustang, every bolt on in the world...
I have a couple 4-cyl cars in addition to my Ford E150 and they do see most of my mileage lately...it's a joy getting 30 mpg while driving 80 mph and 25+ mpg at 90...and as the saying goes, it's more fun to drive a slow car fast than it is to drive a fast car slow (and I used to have a number of fast cars, including a 12 second Hemi Cuda and a couple Corvettes, between 20 and 35 years ago now).
Trucks are just pretty boring to drive no matter what
Not totally a tree-hugger, but I try to hold on to my wallet pretty tight...and maybe save some gas for my kid, who's also a car freak...
I have to disagree with that! My Roush F150 is way more fun at any speed than the Escort was. Its faster than a Mustang GT by a long shot, out handles most cars due to it's Roush suspension and the tires I have on it. While its not a 12 second truck (in the 13s now and working on 12), it will handle corners better than the muscle cars of yester-year and do it with more comfort and safety. Its not "boring" in the least... not by a looooooonnnngggg shot. Same goes for the Lightning... not boring at all.
I don't drive enough that mileage is a bit of concern to me. Sometimes I put 50-75 miles on my vehicles in a week, sometimes I put 0 miles on them.
What 4 cylinder cars do you have that get 25 mpg at 90?
Ford is addressing mileage with the initial line-up and in 2010/2011 when Ecoboost becomes available for the F150 there will be an even bigger increase in mileage. Sure, mileage is impacting truck sales. But, look back at the 70s, when adjusted for inflation gas prices weren't much better... lots of trucks still sold. The big three will need to innovate to keep market share, and hopefully they will.
The reality is, with most people, that the more money they have the more they will spend. They will not put it away for the future. When fuel prices were lower they didn't save... they simply bought more non-neccessities. One of the easiest things a person can do is figure out how to cut $5 out of their daily expenses. Bring a bagged lunch, eat out with the family one less times per month, cut out the Starbucks and get a cup of joe at Dunkin Donuts (more make it at home!) and put $5 cash in a jar each day. At the end of each month put it into a Roth IRA. By the time they reach retirement age they'll have $800K in addition to anything they put in a 401k. The biggest road-block to a secure future isn't spending... its a lack of saving even if its a small amount each day. Small savings add up to big bucks without impacting lifestyle. If one can cut out even more spending on things that don't really matter that do impact lifestyle and funnel that into savings they could easily retire in their 50s with a modest retirement or in their 60s with a very well-off retirement.
In the case of my family, we've made small changes that impact lifestyle but are worth it. Dropping the data plan on the cell-phone/PDA ($59/month). Changing out satellite plan from 250 channels to 110 ($25/month). Getting rid of the land line phones ($45/month) and going totally wireless.
Being prepared for an unexpected bargain for vacation, and be willing to take it at off-peak times at less trendy places (for instance, we went to Gulf Shores, Alabama for our beach trip last year instead of Pennsicola, Daytona, Panama, etc.). That saved about $750. Renting a condo for vacation instead of a hotel (nicer, plus its less money and we can cook our meals at the condo instead of eating out each meal). Listening to Clark Howard's show on Fridays for airfare bargains and being ready to pounce on them (for vacations).
Upgrading our current computers instead of buying new computers. Hard to measure the savings but they are real. Putting a timer on the water heater. Put a brick (in a plastic bag) in the toilet tank. Using 50/60 watt bulbs instead of 75 watt bulbs. Changing the oil and other fluids myself in each vehicle. Ebay things instead of throwing them away (and its less hassle and more profitable than a garage sale). Selling my books on Amazon after reading them. Buying books several at a time to save on shipping from an online used book store instead of buying new books. Cut dryer sheets in half! Skip the appetizer when eating out and instead waiting for the free fresh baked bread to show up at the table (if they don't have that.... ask for peanuts!). Compare our insurance rates every 2 years and change as needed. On cools nights in the summer... open the windows! Use the wood burning stove for heating the bulk of the house during the winter. For my new guitar.... get reduced lessons at the local community college on the weekends ($60 for an 8 week course with 6 other students instead of $50 per each 1.5 hour session at the local music store). Joined a credit union... we get a better rate on our savings account (only keep enough there for emergencies) and better loan rates (though we try to operate without debt. Buy generic brands at the grocery store when possible. Not drinking alcohol (at all!) saves a bunch. Instead of paying for a gym I have a set of free-weights I'm now using and I take walks with the family (quality time). Buying an inexpensive intelligent thermostat (about $25) which adjusts temperatures so the house is slightly colder in the winter after we go to sleep and slighty warmer in summer.
For as many purchases as possible I shop online and I stock up when I see a bargain (but only for items I would buy anyway such as oil filters, spark plugs, etc.). I also barter when I can for things on my Roush project truck. My brother-in-law will be helping with some things soon, and I'll be helping him with his Monza restoration.
Another one that puts $500 into our wallets each year: a credit card with rewards points. We use this card for pretty much every purchase we make and pay it in full each month. Every December we cash in our points for a $500 rewards debit card and use that for Christmas instead of dipping into the family budget.
A big one... 4 years ago when everyone else was in a frenzy to get the most house they could afford... our real estate agent tried to get us into a $300K home because the banks would loan the money. Instead we purchased a $195K (modest by Atlanta standard) home with 1.5 acres of land (not in a neighborhood) that was bigger than the $300k-$400k homes. Plus making mortgage payments more often. Every 4 weeks (at most) instead of every 30 days gives one extra payment per year. Also, contested the tax assessment and lowered our property taxes.
Heck, even in the years when I racked up debt growing FTE I still put away money and managed the debt as intelligently as possible. For instance, simply calling the credit card company and asking them to lower my rate resulted in a 4% decrease in the rate! Never letting debt to a point we couldn't manage it and making 1/2 payments twice a month instead of full payments monthly paid it off quicker since credit cards compute interest daily. Keeping our eyes on the goal and not letting road-blocks stop us (for instance, going without paying ourselves for 2 months so we could continue to make payroll for employees insure we could keep growing the company rather than laying off).
That's just a small sampling of how my household saves money and it racks up literally thousands of dollars each year we put away. At the current rate of savings I can retire much earlier than my peers making the same income by moving to a location when we retire that has a lower cost of living. While gas certainly could impact things if I drove more... positive decisions in my financial life far outweigh the negatives of gas prices. Personally I believe if most people would take a hard look at their finances, making tough inventory of their financial life, they'd be less inclined to complain about fuel.
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Ken Payne
Gone Fishing...
LACK OF PLANNING ON YOUR PART DOES NOT CONSTITUTE AN EMERGENCY ON MY PART.
2006 Roush F150 Project: Roush Supercharger, Troyer & My Tuning, 9lb pulley, Level 10 Trans, E-Fans, Oil Separator, Brandmotion GPS, BlueConnect Hands-Free Phone & iPod Direct Connect, Black Headlights & Taillights, Retrax Retractable Tonneau & more.
2004 F250 King Ranch Crewcab 4x4 6.0L PSD project: DP-Tuner Tuning and MBRP Stainless Dual Exhaust.
2000 Ranger Supercab XLT 3.0 V6 project: Bright Box, Mac Intake, Tonneau, my tuning.
RIP: 1967 & 1975 F100, looking for a 66 F100
...the idea is a truck that gets 24 mpg which will do nearly the same amount of real work that a 12 mpg truck can do...something like a stripper F150, weighing what a 1980 F150 did, and with a 4.4 liter diesel engine or some EcoBoost thing, or like that. You might lose the NASCAR race truck vibe, but it would still be a real truck.
My old 1978 F100, 300 inch six, 4 speed O/D stick, would get an honest 22-23 mpg on the freeway....add injection, computerized engine controls, variable valve timing, another gear or two in the trans, and I'd bet it would easily get 25 mpg. I bought that truck new to use as an unloaded commuter and it really was as cheap to run as a Chevy Nova would have been. Crank windows, rubber mats, but it did have A/C.
The Ford rep I talked to at the Tulsa Auto Show said thatthe 5.4 wold make 325-330 hp and over 400 ft lbs of tourque which more than plenty for me,besides I am pleased with my 4.6 STX.
MPG is an issue. It seems as though you must be one of Bill Gates' relatives to "not care about the MPG"...if you have that much excess money, I can give you a mailing address to which you can send a check.
People *are* going to phase out using giant trucks as family haulers, and that will help dig a grave for Ford and the other domestic auto makers unless they have sensible high mpg vehicles available. I have spent many years of my life driving 10 mpg musclecars and 12 mpg vans for my everyday vehicles, but ain't gonna do that any more with $3.50 gas prices and a kid to get thru college.
Again, let me know if you have some extra money to send my way...
George
Point is that people that complain about mpg need to get a gasmizer car.... im in college working on a degree in mechanical engineering, i work for everything i have, and I get absolutly zero money from the rents for college other than there insurance for medical stuff....
So your basically asking a broke college student for money bud... aint going to happen....
95% of people that drive these trucks just drive them cause they like to drive trucks...great, i do the same thing... but if its a thing about money now then get something different, cause its never going to get good gas mileage...
basically you cant have your cake and eat it to...
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99' F-150 Super Cab Step Side
5.4l/4R70W (previously a 4.6l romeo)
Cold Air Kit
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Edge w/Attitude Programmer
900LB add a leaf rear springs
Lariet LE leather front captains chairs
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10" L7 Kicker Sub
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32" Micky Thompson MTZ's
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Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
