FORD TRUCK ENTHUSIASTS - Order of the BLUE MAX

[F350-6]

Originally Posted by Greywolf Seeing this with a BUD in front of me... Me too. Although I'm not sure I agree with Ken on this. Someone that's been sober a week, a decade, or thirty years, or dealt with depression has exercised some amount of will power and self discipline (even with assistance) to get where they are today. Getting yourself in a situation you can't control, and avoiding getting yourself in that situation are two different things. My hat's off to all of you who have had a problem and dealt with it.

[Greywolf]

Long ago I realised I would never be completely clean. But damn if I will be a slave to it either!
I really don't care what other people think. IT IS MY PROBLEM. Mine to solve.

[FTE Ken]

Originally Posted by F350-6

Me too. Although I'm not sure I agree with Ken on this. Someone that's been sober a week, a decade, or thirty years, or dealt with depression has exercised some amount of will power and self discipline (even with assistance) to get where they are today. Getting yourself in a situation you can't control, and avoiding getting yourself in that situation are two different things.

My hat's off to all of you who have had a problem and dealt with it.

The thing is you're seeing this from the point of view of a non-alcoholic, from the outside looking in. Those who have been on in the inside see it quite a bit differently. Alcoholics who have been down the road of sobriety know that no amount of will-power is going to overcome the disease of alcoholism. Alcohol metabolizes quite differently in them, setting off an endorphin cycle in the brain that causes extreme craving. Those who get sober, and stay sober almost invariably do it with the help of a higher power, not will-power.

What they do have is willingness to follow the 12 step program, or whatever other spiritual path they take. Sometimes they have to hit rock bottom to get willing. Others... never get willing to admit defeat (I'm sure we've all seem people like that). Some of the worst drunks show an extreme amount of will power in their lives, doing many things that others would give up on... except when the bottle is concerned their will alone won't cut it.

Its why 12-step programs have an admission of "powerlessness" as their core foundation. If they weren't powerless over it, they'd have never gotten to the position they ended up in. Take 2 people, one with a genetic predisposition (and studies with twins have shown it is) for addiction and the other not, have them drink hard for a prolonged period of time. The non-alcoholic, when life hits him with a hard enough lesson... will quit. The alcoholic... will find he/she can't.

[F350-6]

Originally Posted by FTE Ken

What they do have is willingness to follow the 12 step program, or whatever other spiritual path they take. Some of the worst drunks show an extreme amount of will power in their lives, doing many things that others would give up on... except the bottle has them nailed.

I've known a few alcoholics. And you're right, I'm on the outside looking in. I'm not debating what happens when they get a bottle in their hands, but even with help from a higher power, 12 step program, and their peers, there are still times when the cravings, or urge hit when no one would know (at least not right away). I think it takes will power and commitment to keep from taking that first drink.

Taking the first sip or saying no is all they have control over, and some people have done quite well with that.

At least that's my worthless opinion.

[Greywolf]

What you're missing is that most alcoholics or dopers have no substitute in their lives that equals "HIGH PERFORMANCE" living.

They bury themselves in garbage like that, because there is no longer a way of accelllerated living that matches what they have done before.

So they die dreaming.

And here I am in a place like this.....

[fabmandelux]

AA didn't work for me, nether did family, wives [2] or friends.
It took the potential loss of a great friend and mentor to make me see the light. When he passed away 4 years ago I went to the local store and bought a fifth of Jack and sat in my shop looking at that bottle for 6 hours. I never even opened it, gave it away to a friend the next day.

The want never goes away...........but I've come to far to return to the bottle now.

[Greywolf]

Fook AA.

I need a life!

If I had a life that worked out, I wouldn't have to try so hard to get one - WOULD I?

Mine was destroyed by a Lady who ruined it.

I DARE YOU to refute me....
(and many of you know that story well)


When I can do nothing, since I am unemployed - I spend as little as I can. I still have a stipend from the government. Retired pay.
It ain't enough, and I know too much to be employed in this place.....


BACKWARDS ASSED COUNTRY TENNESSEE!!!

The twenty first century is here.....

WTF?????

It occurs to me to go down the road and talk to some people.

[lwfox002]

I am not a alcoholic but have famliy that is or has been. My grandfather (maternal) and father both had problems with alcohol, both deceased for years not. My little brother does now. He always has some alcohol in is hand. I hope one day he can take the first step.

For you guys that are walking that path everyday, Keep up the fight. I am proud of all of you. You deal with something much tougher that I do everyday. God bless all of you.

[FTE Ken]

Originally Posted by Greywolf

Fook AA.

Maybe unwillingingness to try is why you can't stop? Don't know... just hazarding a guess.

I need a life!

If I had a life that worked out, I wouldn't have to try so hard to get one - WOULD I?

Lots of people fallen on hard times don't drink. As a friend, Dutch, I'm saying this in all sincerity... that perhaps at this point cause and effect are intermixed, and that maybe a life that "worked out" wouldn't be less difficult to obtain when sober? I had some rough times in my early years and the bottle was never a factor... but it certainly would have made it worse.

I can't think of a single problem in life which booze will fix, but I can think of many that booze will make worse. Email me if you want to chat sometime, this road you're on certainly won't get better with the bottle --- I mean that not in a judgemental way at all, but rather with concern for you (if I wasn't concerned I wouldn't bother to reply).

[Greywolf]

I wish you had PM'd instead of putting it out there.

I rebell instantly against that.

Somethings need to be zoned private.

~Wolf

Originally Posted by FTE Ken

Maybe unwillingingness to try is why you can't stop? Don't know... just hazarding a guess.



Lots of people fallen on hard times don't drink. As a friend, Dutch, I'm saying this in all sincerity... that perhaps at this point cause and effect are intermixed, and that maybe a life that "worked out" wouldn't be less difficult to obtain when sober? I had some rough times in my early years and the bottle was never a factor... but it certainly would have made it worse.

I can't think of a single problem in life which booze will fix, but I can think of many that booze will make worse. Email me if you want to chat sometime, this road you're on certainly won't get better with the bottle --- I mean that not in a judgemental way at all, but rather with concern for you (if I wasn't concerned I wouldn't bother to reply).

When enough people push you against your own interests, or even towards them - you no longer trust anyone. It is why the "WOLF" is my choice.


I will handle this on my own, or I will fail. But I will deal with this as best I can. If I fail - it will be while doing well.


Enough said on that.

[80351]

Originally Posted by Greywolf

Seeing this with a BUD in front of me...

Wolfie, If you can handle it that's great, for me I may as well put a gun to my head and end it quickly cause it won't take long.
As a matter of fact, my wife drinks and I will on occasion go get it for her.
We have a standing joke that if we go to a bull roast or crab feast. I do the eaten and she does the drinking with a built in DD.

If you need me anytime anywhere for anything all you have to do is call and I will be there.
Goodnight and enjoy the Bud.

[ford4life69]

Originally Posted by Greywolf

When enough people push you against your own interests, or even towards them - you no longer trust anyone. It is why the "WOLF" is my choice.

I will handle this on my own, or I will fail. But I will deal with this as best I can. If I fail - it will be while doing well.

it took quite a bit for me to realize what i was doing. he wasn't worth everything else i lost in my efforts to forget and try to lay the blame at his feet. it took one of my guy friends shoving me into a wall and getting right in my face yelling at me that i was effin up; my best friend catching me in a rare conscious moment in tears telling me i reminded her of her father who was an abusive alcoholic till she was 9 or so when he put it down. a few weeks later when it sank in what i was causing myself to lose i made the decision, quite filling my 44 oz mug before i commuted to work, gave away the stash i kept behind the seat to refill on breaks and lunch, moved 30 miles away and never talked about it. now 6 years later i can tell the days i shouldn't touch it and the days it wouldn't bother me, the first is the case more often than not.

i've always been the type to believe it's a choice that has to be made rather than a disease. that term's a little too loosely used nowadays. it's just such a hard choice to step away from something that seems such an easy quick fix that most want to believe that there's an excuse for why they can't do it. that's how I feel. i don't want an excuse for why i don't always get it right, the fault for my choices lies solely with me and i'll accept whatever stupidity i cause myself because of my choices. it's a battle some fight with themselves that can't always be fixed by well meaning people acting as babysitters. i agree with Wolfie...

hey wolf... i'm gonna send ya a picture you might like.

now why don't we go back to our good samaritan stories, you know, the thread topic?

[80351]

now why don't we go back to our good samaritan stories, you know, the thread topic?

Yeah, What he said.

[FTE Ken]

Originally Posted by Greywolf

I wish you had PM'd instead of putting it out there.

I rebell instantly against that.

Somethings need to be zoned private.

~Wolf

Next time I will, okay? Note, however, that you have laid out this darkness in your life in public for a long, long time, hence the public reply.

[80351]

ACCEPTANCE
Is the answer to all MY problems today. When I am disturbed, it is because I find some person, place, thing or situation - fact of my life unacceptable to ME and I can find no serenity until I accept that person, place, thing or situation as being how it is supposed to be at this moment. Nothing absolutely nothing happens in this world by mistake; unless I accept life completely on life's terms, I cannot be happy. I need to concentrate not so much on what needs to be changed in the world as on what needs to be changed in me and my attitudes.