If Ford wants to stay in the game.....

[tseekins]

Diesel electric / Hybrid diesel, call it what you want, that's the way of the future if we are to see any significant gains in mpg. I don't know how many more forward gears they can stuff into a transmission case and maintain weight and efficiency.

I'll bet that my '88 F-150 4x4 351 consumes more gas than an '08 SD with the 5.4L. I drive my truck every Sunday and or when I need it, otherwise I drive the old '99 family Taurus every day and get 25 mpg combined driving. I put $75.00 in the Expy today and got so pissed off, but it is what it is. Until a dramatic turn around is made in fuel efficiency, I'll run the hell out of the "88 and the '99, after all, they're built ford tough.

Ford needs to get with it on small car mpg. I had an '02 Focus with auto trans that got 34 hwy. They have the nerve to boast about 35mpg with a 5 spd.

[wiingnut]

The 2 biggest things to remember are emissions have increased significantly, and so has the speed limit. Knock your trucks speed limit down to 55 and which your mileage go up. Back in '85 the speed limit was 55 mph, and in '92 65mph. Just food for thought

[fonefiddy]

Originally Posted by Remmy

25 mpg in a "typical" half-ton truck will not happen, unless there is a substantial change in technology. With the mandated switch to "Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel" and the latest tier in emissions the new powerstrokes are lucky to get over 12 miles per gallon. In the good old days 25 mpg highway may have been possible but it isn't going to happen now. The fuel is less efficient and the emissions requirements are so stringent every diesel manufacturer has taken an additional mileage hit. I don't think the VW diesel would even be legal for sale anymore with the latest EPA standards.


Got to love the government and their brilliant decisions to keep us less dependant on foreign oil. LOL

Just my 2 cents worth.

25 MPG is very possible. They just need to turn the 1/2 ton trucks back into 1/2 ton trucks.

[mnmwhit]

Simply not true.

There is alot that can be done both with gas and diesel engines to make them both more powerful and more efficient.

I am curious to see how affective Ford will be with "eco boost"

Originally Posted by BURNSTOUGHFORD

well mpg is based on weight and gearing mostly, and when coupled with a smaller dispacement engine you can achieve higher milage.

[bluedevil3758]

Originally Posted by fonefiddy

25 MPG is very possible. They just need to turn the 1/2 ton trucks back into 1/2 ton trucks.

ford has a half ton the ranger with payloads from 1260 to 1600 its more a 3/4 ton and most rangers weigh in at 3300-3700lbs, but thats not whats gonna sell

[BURNSTOUGHFORD]

Originally Posted by mnmwhit

Simply not true.

There is alot that can be done both with gas and diesel engines to make them both more powerful and more efficient.

I am curious to see how affective Ford will be with "eco boost"

Point being with that statement is that if you have two trucks with the same engine one light with tall gears and one heavy with low gears, which one you think is going to result in better mileage? Der....

I know theres alot that can be done with both engines, but with the new restrictions on diesel emitions, the power and mpg are going to suffer...

More power comes from better tuning and more efficient burn of the fuel. Resulting in more MPG.....

LoL or one enormous big block....hehe

[AEROSTAR ALIVE]

If ford wants to stay in the game, they are gonna have to beat out nissan and toyota.

Bottom line.

Diesel Smiesel, Until you get your gas engines up on par with Toyota and Nissan, your going down.

Ford and US automakers make one big mistake. We build all these cars, then hope to sell them. Nissan and Toyota don't build one until they have an order for one.

[tseekins]

Originally Posted by AEROSTAR ALIVE

If ford wants to stay in the game, they are gonna have to beat out nissan and toyota.

Bottom line.

Diesel Smiesel, Until you get your gas engines up on par with Toyota and Nissan, your going down.

Ford and US automakers make one big mistake. We build all these cars, then hope to sell them. Nissan and Toyota don't build one until they have an order for one.

I take it that you drive a nissan or a toyo. Nissan's QA is crap and thier build quality sucks. The only good nissan is the frontier. I'd put a ford triton V-8 against any Japanese V-8 any day.

[David85]

I would advise against underestimating the japanese automakers, that was a mistake that need not be repeated........

[mnmwhit]

Originally Posted by tseekins

I take it that you drive a nissan or a toyo. Nissan's QA is crap and thier build quality sucks. The only good nissan is the frontier. I'd put a ford triton V-8 against any Japanese V-8 any day.

I love the 4.6 we use that engine in the Crown Vics and Expys in police service at work. They get beat on every day and go well into 150,000 miles most times without any thing more than oil changes.

I just got a new Expy handed to me a few months ago with the 5.4 its awesome. The Japs should stick to small cars.....they know that.

[YoGeorge]

Originally Posted by bluedevil3758

ford has a half ton the ranger with payloads from 1260 to 1600 its more a 3/4 ton and most rangers weigh in at 3300-3700lbs, but thats not whats gonna sell

...based on the current gas price situation, if Ford were to make some significant improvements to the Ranger's styling and gas mileage, and start a good ad campaign championing the mileage as well as the actual 3/4 ton capacity of the truck, I think the tide will slowly turn in the direction of smaller, lighter trucks.

Not everyone is bad at math, and calculating the cost of fuel for 15,000 miles a year at 15 mpg and at 25 mpg will get some attention. Of course, Ford would have a tough time advertising "against" the F150 since it's a cash cow, and it will be a stretch to get the Ranger up to 25 mpg, but let's see what they can do with Ecoboost engines...

George

[David85]

Ford makes bigger profits off of F150s than rangers. If they were to make the ranger more atractive, than it would likely start to cut into the bottom line by reducing the sales of fullsize trucks. You can get a ranger in europe or australia that has TWO optional Diesel engines with a towing capacity over 7000 lbs and a real world 25+ MPG. The truck is also available with a real crewcab and way too many other features to list.

In reality, all thats really needed to pass emissions here is to add a DPF. That would cut into the MPG some, but you will still be over 20 MPG on diesel power.

[YoGeorge]

Originally Posted by David85

Ford makes bigger profits off of F150s than rangers. If they were to make the ranger more atractive, than it would likely start to cut into the bottom line by reducing the sales of fullsize trucks. You can get a ranger in europe or australia that has TWO optional Diesel engines with a towing capacity over 7000 lbs and a real world 25+ MPG. The truck is also available with a real crewcab and way too many other features to list.

In reality, all thats really needed to pass emissions here is to add a DPF. That would cut into the MPG some, but you will still be over 20 MPG on diesel power.

Interesting, and I agree on the profits. Americans have been conditioned to buy vehicles "by the pound", where the biggest, heaviest Cadillac was the most expensive car. Elsewhere around the world, there are a number of premium small cars (like BMW's) that cost a fair amount of money but have a high build quality and nice equipment. One problem is that small cars and trucks built by American car makers have a somewhat deserved reputation as being cheaply built, since they are cheaply built.

With gas mileage becoming an issue, an awakening of American attitudes is happening. Driving a 6000 lb F150 beast if you don't really need a truck makes no sense, and I think people will start figuring that out soon when they have to choose between buying gasoline and food (the latter of which is also rapidly increasing in price due to fuel costs).

I don't think that full-size pickup sales will ever increase from where they are now--I see a declining curve in sales in the long run, with small "blips" during the years where they introduce a new model. But the big pickup as personal transportation is not going to be viable.

I'm quite sure that my '02 E150 (which has a lot of years left in it) is probably going to be my last V8 vehicle (unless I buy a hotrod toy which wouldn't be an everyday car), and that's a bit sad, as I've had about 20 cars and trucks with V8's over the years.

Looping back to the original thread about "Ford staying in the game", the comment I have is that the rules of the game, if not the entire game itself, are changing, like it or not.

[bluedevil3758]

Originally Posted by AEROSTAR ALIVE

If ford wants to stay in the game, they are gonna have to beat out nissan and toyota.

Bottom line.

Diesel Smiesel, Until you get your gas engines up on par with Toyota and Nissan, your going down.

Ford and US automakers make one big mistake. We build all these cars, then hope to sell them. Nissan and Toyota don't build one until they have an order for one.

Nissians trucks are selling horribly for jan and feb they only sold 3k more trucks then the ranger, thats frontier and titan combined

i had a friend who has a new frontier 05 or 06 and it looked much better compared to my 99 ranger, but we were moving a 600lb dump truck tire, didnt even notice it im my ranger, in his truck the whole bed sunk down and it actually swayed for a few seconds when we put it in, that quickly changed my mind about it, and ive had 2700 in my ranger id hate to see what that would do to a nissian

[David85]

I don't have national stats to back me up, but my impression of the ranger is that it is still selling quite well in my neck of the woods. Despite the complete lack of real rear seating and obsolete engines.