Quick Timing by Hand - Advice Needed - Page 2

matt2491 · #16 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 12:23 PM

RCA, I'd just like to clear up a quick question.

When the light bulb is NOT illuminated, it means that the points are closed, correct?

RCA78SS · #17 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 03:09 PM

No...points closed = illuminated
points open = no light, but this is when the saturated coil collapses and produces the ignition spark.

matt2491 · #18 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 04:54 PM

Ohh, I see. So when the points are open for that split second, that's when the spark is produced?

matt2491 · #19 (**permalink**) 03-18-2008, 05:09 PM

Also, my '64 F100 shop manual says that the recommended BTDC timing degrees should be at 6. From there it says that I could advance it up to 5 degrees more, but past that there wouldn't be any more gain. Just keep going past 6 until spark knock is heard, then just back it off a little. Sounds good!

I'll go try this out right now. Thanks again guys.

kotzy · #20 (**permalink**) 03-21-2008, 09:20 PM

RCA I think you have it backwards, since current follows the easiest path to ground the light is not illuminated when the points are closed. It is when they open that the light lites, and that is when the spark occures. That was the way the old timers timed engines, I worked with two of them in 1952/3 and while that Sun timing light was there they wouldn't pick it up. A couple of young guys thought they couldn't be accurate doing it that way. Lets say we had a lesson eating crow. kotzy

matt2491 · #21 (**permalink**) 03-22-2008, 11:16 AM

Okay, so did I mess it up by clamping down the distributor when the light was OFF?

matt2491 · #22 (**permalink**) 03-22-2008, 11:18 AM

Also, I have a quick question:

To 'retard' the timing means to increase the degrees before TDC, correct? Yes/no.

46yblock · #23 (**permalink**) 03-22-2008, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by matt2491

Also, I have a quick question:

To 'retard' the timing means to increase the degrees before TDC, correct? Yes/no.

To advance the ignition you relatively increase the degrees BTDC, to retard ignition decrease the degrees BTDC. Maybe it would be easier to borrow a timing light from a neighbor?

matt2491 · #24 (**permalink**) 03-22-2008, 03:21 PM

Well, that's the other thing. I had to use a piston stop to find TDC because the harmonic balancer had slipped a bit over the years. From my newly discovered TDC I did RCA's method of static timing. I've tried timing lights but for some reason they don't flash correctly or I set it up wrong...

Thanks for clearing up the advance/retard query, I was thinking of it backwards due to semantics.

RCA78SS · #25 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 08:44 AM

Kotzy:
I think I'm correct. Current flows throgh the closed points contacts when they are closed = illuminated bulb.

Y-Blockhead · #26 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 01:14 PM

RCA78SS
You are exactly correct, points closed, current flows through coil and points (light on), points open, collapses coil magnetic field and BAM we have fire!!
Y-Blockhead

matt2491 · #27 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 02:07 PM

Sorry, I'm still just a little confused. Could someone just answer this question:

Do I want to clamp down the distributor when the points are OPEN or CLOSED?
_____

Also, I just installed a Pertronix module and coil I had. Will this static timing method with the bulb still work?

Y-Blockhead · #28 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 03:00 PM

I’ll try. I think everyone is in agreement that the plugs fire when the points open??

So I have tried to simplify it by removing the light bulb from the equation and use #1 spark plug to indicate when it fires.

This is what I did to static time my 312 with Pertronix

Set crank shaft timing mark at 6 deg BTDC (set to what you desire, I set mine at 10, but I have a built engine)

Adjust air gap on Pertronix pick up. Use brass feeler gauge included in the kit.

Turn distributor counter clockwise so pick up and magnet are not lined up.

Pull #1 plug and connect to #1 wire coming from distbutor cap and ensure plug is grounded.

Connect all wires to and from coil, distbutor, ignition switch, etc.

Turn on ignition switch and slowly turn distributor in clockwise direction until spark plug fires.

Without moving distributor, tighten clamp.

You are now timed at 6 deg BTDC or pretty dang close. Close enough to start anyway.

But if your balancer has slipped, all of the above is a moot point until you replace it.

Clear as mud right.

Hope I was of a little help

Y-Blockhead

One last point, make sure the coil you are using is compatible with the Pertronix or bad things could happen.

You may want to use the points and condenser to get it running then change to the Pertronix later. The points system is the most basic and has worked for a long time, maybe even before I was born, ha,ha.

Good luck to you.

matt2491 · #29 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 04:04 PM

Alright, that did help quite a bit actually. Thanks a lot Y-Blockhead. I also installed a Flamethrower coil with the Pertronix I pick up.

I heard that if I leave the ignition on for too long the Flamethrower coil and Pertronix Ignitor can burn up. How long is too long? I mean... in order to test this thing, I need to turn on the ignition but not start the motor...

I can see why visually seeing the spark is the best way to go because it is the most accurate to lining it all up with the timing degrees marks.

Thanks again!

Y-Blockhead · #30 (**permalink**) 03-24-2008, 04:23 PM

Matt, glad I could help. Don't know how long is too long for the Pertronix, that's why I suggest you put the points back in to try it out and get some "practice". I have never had a problem with a pertronix in the last 8 years I've been using them but I know peole that have. I really don't think I want to find out how it would take to fry one but I will admit that I "forgot to turn off the switch once... but I also have a different setup, I only use the Pertronix to trigger a MSD 6A. You want too see a hot multiple spark...

Best of luck,

Y-Blockhead