The 4.0 German Ford V-6 requires 5W-30, so it must make a difference in wear.
Jim
Something interesting to note is that you never hear of engine siezures caused by a failed camshaft synchronizer on a Cologne 4.0L OHV engine.
On the other hand, Ford 3.0L OHV "vulcan" cam synchros have been failing at a disturbing rate, even more so over just the past couple of years.
Both OHV engines use a cam syncro assembly that interfaces with the oil pump drive shaft. So when a synchro shaft fails and stops spinning, that means the oil pump also stops pumping. Say goodbye to that motor.
I have no emperical evidence that Ford's decision several years ago to switch to 5W-20 oil specs for the 3.0L OHV is related to the increase in cam synchro failures regarding that engine, but IMO you have to at least wonder a little bit...
YoGorge: I use it because I can and I honestly don't think that I'll ever have an oil related engine failure because of it. I'm not an expert on oil (or anything for that matter). This is just my opinion but I feel confident that my engine will run as long or longer than most peoples because it never gets abused and I also don't believe that any difference in fuel mileage between your 5w20 and my 15w50 is significant enough to be concerned about. This stuff when drained out of a hot engine at oil change time really looks thin (not the molasses or syrup label that Ed likes to use in describing it). Also, for what it's worth I use Fram TG oil filters and burn 93 octane fuel. Oh yeah, I do wish that I had a 300 gallon tank of this stuff because at 4000 mile oil changes my engine would last until I used every drop of it. The rest of the truck probably wouldn't though. Is 5w20 really necessary.
YoGorge: I use it because I can and I honestly don't think that I'll ever have an oil related engine failure because of it.
Also, for what it's worth I use Fram TG oil filters and burn 93 octane fuel.
...lessee, you trusted Ford's engineers to design you a whole truck to which you entrust your life whenever you drive it, but somehow you don't trust the oil that the engineers designed the engine to run...OK....
As for Fram filters, I used to used them in the old days--I recall Consumer Reports testing a bunch of filters and Frams seemed to filter best back then. In recent years, with the info available on the Internets, seeing the insides of Fram filters has made me nervous, so I'm using Motorcrafts.
If I didn't have to pay for gas, I suppose I'd use 93 octane, but given that my engine is designed to run fine on 87 octane (and I've tried higher octanes and found they didn't give me any mpg increase), choose not to spend my money on the octane. My BMW requires 91 octane, so I have always put 93 octane in that...but it gets almost 30 mpg.
Run whatever you want....with your truck out of warranty, do what you think is best.
I do wonder....I know Ford designed the Vulcan and the mod motors around 5W30 oil, so the 5W20 ain't a heck of a lot different. I'll have to look around the Internet sometime and see what the deal is with the oil pump failures on Vulcans. If I owned a Taurus with one, I'd look much harder and faster, and *maybe* choose to switch to 5W30 if I thought that the failures looked like they were cause by low oil viscosity...
I'm back. Had to go walk the dog. Anyhow I've never said or insinuated in any way, shape or form, that I didn't trust Ford engineers engine being designed around 5w20 oil. I've never said anything negative about 5w20 oil as I am not qualified to do so. I just simply made a different choice other than what is recommended for my vehicle. I've made good choices in my life as well as bad. Let this one fall where it may. Is 5w20 really necessary?
I'm back. Had to go walk the dog. Anyhow I've never said or insinuated in any way, shape or form, that I didn't trust Ford engineers engine being designed around 5w20 oil. I've never said anything negative about 5w20 oil as I am not qualified to do so. I just simply made a different choice other than what is recommended for my vehicle. I've made good choices in my life as well as bad. Let this one fall where it may. Is 5w20 really necessary?
Not sure what you're after...are you really wanting someone to give you a *better* argument than has been provided for 5W20 being "necessary"? Or do you just like to amuse yourself by asking the same question over and over like a 3-year-old kid does? Use what ya want....really....
Something interesting to note is that you never hear of engine siezures caused by a failed camshaft synchronizer on a Cologne 4.0L OHV engine.
On the other hand, Ford 3.0L OHV "vulcan" cam synchros have been failing at a disturbing rate, even more so over just the past couple of years.
Both OHV engines use a cam syncro assembly that interfaces with the oil pump drive shaft. So when a synchro shaft fails and stops spinning, that means the oil pump also stops pumping. Say goodbye to that motor.
I have no emperical evidence that Ford's decision several years ago to switch to 5W-20 oil specs for the 3.0L OHV is related to the increase in cam synchro failures regarding that engine, but IMO you have to at least wonder a little bit...
It looks like they started using this part in the Vulcan circa 1998--prior to that, it used a distributor, whereas it changed over to this approach when they went distributorless. On a couple Taurus/Ranger discussion pages, it was mentioned that using a HEAVIER oil would strain this part more because it would work the oil pump harder.
And many of the problems were with a Chinese-made (Dorman brand) replacement part. Apparently the original part is good for 80-150k miles, but the Dorman is failing at 1k-5k miles after replacement...
So my guess is the reason you're hearing about the part a lot more is that the '98 and later Vulcans are all hitting the failure point in terms of miles....and the Dorman part seems to be a common replacement part which was available thru Rock Auto and other sources. I believe Rock Auto has stopped carrying this brand because of the problems....
So that ain't a problem due to lighter oil weight at all...
George
I just dont see a point to run an oil designed for a diesel engine that sees alot more stress and heat then a gas engine. Is 5e-20 really necessary? no. But why deviate so far from it when it does a more then adequate job in just about every climate. The manual does not have a chart indicating to change oil weights based on your climate...
I can see some of the older guys looking at 5w-20 and thinking it is more like water then oil. So I can see them going to a 5w-30 (which really isnt that far off of a 5w-20 anyways). But 15w-40/50... You say you think it will last longer because you dont drive it hard... then why put in a thicker oil that would need a ton of heat to be efficient in this engine... Why use 93 octane (unless you have a tuner set to run that fuel) when your truck was tuned to operate on 87 octane.... Why use a Fram filter? From what I have read on BITOG and other sites including this one - that it does not filter as well as most other filters and some clog up faster, have horrible drain back valves and so on. Some people claim that their engine knocks when using a fram filter. I dont know much about the "TG" model that you are using but there reputation of making less then acceptable products has steered me clear of them for good.
So if you want the best for your truck what sort of education do you have that makes you better then Fords' engineers to decide to deviate so far from what they recommend and from what so many people on this site recommend as well?
Ever hear what happens to alot of people after putting in some thick additive like Lucas oil treatment? Many have had bearing failures very shorty after using these products. Todays engines do not require such a workhorse of an oil unless that have some other factor like what you see in a turbo diesel.
So to answer your question - Is 5w20 really necessary?
No it is your truck, what you do to it is up to you and if something does happen and things fail please dont go point your fingers at Ford and go rant on a site saying they dont know how to make a reliable truck. And if you are under warranty please dont make them foot the bill to repair it.
As for my truck - I'm sorry but nothing over a 5w-30 will EVER make it into my crankcase - I'll stick to the proven 5w-20 and use 5w-30 in a pinch, nothing from an orange box with fram on it will ever make it into my truck (oil, air, fuel, cabin air filter[if I had one...] and nothing over 87 octane will ever see my tank unless I change the tune on my programmer for 91 or 93 octane.
It looks like they started using this part in the Vulcan circa 1998--prior to that, it used a distributor, whereas it changed over to this approach when they went distributorless.
It was 1995 when the 3.0L vulcan went distrubutorless.
Quote:
And many of the problems were with a Chinese-made (Dorman brand) replacement part. Apparently the original part is good for 80-150k miles, but the Dorman is failing at 1k-5k miles after replacement...
I'm actually referring to factory CMP synchro failures; you are correct about the Doorman brand synchronizers being chinese junk and failing at a high rate, but those are aftermarket parts, meaning there was already a failed OEM unit prior to the Dorman failure.
Quote:
So my guess is the reason you're hearing about the part a lot more is that the '98 and later Vulcans are all hitting the failure point in terms of miles...
From all that I've been reading, OEM units are failing anywhere between 40K and 150K miles, so age and mileage are hardly determinative.
Quote:
On a couple Taurus/Ranger discussion pages, it was mentioned that using a HEAVIER oil would strain this part more because it would work the oil pump harder.
Keep in mind that the 3.0L vulcan was designed with 5W-30 in mind, long before Ford had even thought about developing a 5W-20 spec. So IMO there is no credence to the possibility of a "heavier" motor oil straining the oil pump. Moreover, it's not the oil pump itself that fails, it's the cam synchro gear that spins the oil pump drive shaft.
I run with what the engineers of the engine recommend,they designed it and they know how to keep it running.I have said it before on this forum that Ford would NOT design an engine that would fail after warranty.
[quote=advocate;6159662]I just dont see a point to run an oil designed for a diesel engine that sees alot more stress and heat then a gas engine. Is 5e-20 really necessary? no. But why deviate so far from it when it does a more then adequate job in just about every climate. The manual does not have a chart indicating to change oil weights based on your climate...
I can see some of the older guys looking at 5w-20 and thinking it is more like water then oil. So I can see them going to a 5w-30 (which really isnt that far off of a 5w-20 anyways). But 15w-40/50... You say you think it will last longer because you dont drive it hard... then why put in a thicker oil that would need a ton of heat to be efficient in this engine... Why use 93 octane (unless you have a tuner set to run that fuel) when your truck was tuned to operate on 87 octane.... Why use a Fram filter? From what I have read on BITOG and other sites including this one - that it does not filter as well as most other filters and some clog up faster, have horrible drain back valves and so on. Some people claim that their engine knocks when using a fram filter. I dont know much about the "TG" model that you are using but there reputation of making less then acceptable products has steered me clear of them for good.
So if you want the best for your truck what sort of education do you have that makes you better then Fords' engineers to decide to deviate so far from what they recommend and from what so many people on this site recommend as well?
Ever hear what happens to alot of people after putting in some thick additive like Lucas oil treatment? Many have had bearing failures very shorty after using these products. Todays engines do not require such a workhorse of an oil unless that have some other factor like what you see in a turbo diesel.
So to answer your question - Is 5w20 really necessary?
No it is your truck, what you do to it is up to you and if something does happen and things fail please dont go point your fingers at Ford and go rant on a site saying they dont know how to make a reliable truck. And if you are under warranty please dont make them foot the bill to repair it.
As for my truck - I'm sorry but nothing over a 5w-30 will EVER make it into my crankcase - I'll stick to the proven 5w-20 and use 5w-30 in a pinch, nothing from an orange box with fram on it will ever make it into my truck (oil, air, fuel, cabin air filter[if I had one...] and nothing over 87 octane will ever see my tank unless I change the tune on my programmer for 91 or 93 octane.
--------------------------------------------
Advocate is 100% right on the money. Very well said, and frankly, it makes perfect sense.
I think greenego is doing to us what happened to Peter Fonda at the end of the movie "Dirty Mary, Crazy Larry". He was under the impression he was still being followed by the cops driving that wicked '69 440 Charger R/T, where the sarge (Vic Morrow) in a helicopter kept coming on the radio (CB) saying the police cruisers were lining up to catch him (Fonda). Fonda was driving wildly through the orchards, yet no cop cars were even seen, or close by. It was a ruse.
Fonda's buddy in the back seat, Zeke, says: "Slow Down!" Fonda: "No way man, they're not going to get me!!" Zeke: "They're stroking you! You see any of these cruisers? He's playing with your mind, ***wipe!" Fonda then realizes he's home free, smiles, says: "Nothin' gonna stop us now!" and seconds later he T-bones a moving freight train at 85 MPH all occupants are killed instantly in the Charger.
Well none of us are about to die here, but the premise is still the same. greenego's constant "Is 5w20 really necessary?" he's doing the same thing, probably laughing to himself everytime he writes it.
Anyway Advocate's, Diesel Man's, my post(s) and a few others are about as consise as you can get, based with fact.
This is an excerpt from a message posted to Fasterhorses from Ed in March 2005: "All of our posts here are from our own experiences with our cars/trucks/SUVs/Vans, and it's not my intention here to say "this is correct, that way is wrong". I apologize and will refrain in the future from similar statements on my part".
Here's what confuses me: If they make the recommendation for normal operating temps and suggest 5W-20 oil, the 20 is the viscosity when the oil is at normal operating temps. Wouldn't 0W-20 be better? Reason being better flow and lubrication at start-up and while cold reaching operating temp? Once at operating temps its still the same 20 as the 5W-20 is?
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