Hey guys I'm concidering a newer van and would like some input. Currently I'm driving a '97 E250 with a Triton 5.4 and 373 rear end w/ positrac. I ordered this work van new from Detroit with all the goodies I wanted. Now with 220K miles the cost of a new van payment looks more attractive than the high dollar repaires this old one is starting to incure.
I really can't afford a brand new one plus I think they ruined the look with the '08s new front end so I've been searching for a good used one I could live with.
So today I drive buy a used vehicle lot and see an '06 E250 with only 46K miles and very clean for $13,000. It has no side door windows, which I'd have to get used to, but the interior is clean and well fitted with bulk-head and tool cribs. The down side is it has the smaller 4.6L, can't tell the rear end ratio and no positrac and I don't know if I would want the fewer horses and loose rear end (I go to some pretty high elevation jobsites with very rough driveways).
So what do you think of the price and can I live with less power and traction? Thanks in advance for any and all input.
My thoughts are you will be disappointed. Sounds like your looking for a work van, will probably be hauling tools and materials, maybe some towing. I had a similar van for a short time. Didn't do well at all with more than a very light load. Once tried to tow an empty mini-van on a light trailer, that was a joke. On low and level I-10 in Florida it would not pass 55mph!
If you don't really tow, or carry big-time weight at all times, and if the rest of the van is OK, I don't see a big problem. You will likely miss the torque of the 5.4 (as I did when moving from a Savana with a 350 to my current '02 E150 with the 4.6). But I suspect the gas mileage will be at least a tad better unless you really load it up. (Hell, the stock motor on the E250 was the 4.2 through about 2003--that was a joke.)
Since I bought my van out of dealer stock (nice factory-look conversion with factory glass and no stupid plastic wood trim), it came with a 3.55 axle (stock on the 150) and no trac lock. First thing I did was go to a good local gear shop and have them screw in an Eaton posi (more lockup than a trac-loc, and rebuildable) for about $500...been using the posi LOT this winter in Detroit. And it's snowing again tonight and tomorrow.
For not much more labor cost, you could also have the gear shop put in whatever rear end gear you want. Not sure what the stock gear is--3.73 maybe in a 250? Although it might not be worth the price to kick up to a 4.10 or whatever the next step is.
If you're gonna tow, or always carry 3000 lbs inside, hold out for a 5.4. Price on this one sounds really good for an '06, though...but if you could squeek into a lower-mileage '06 with a factory warranty (under 36k) and extend that to say, 6 years and 75k, you'll have a newer van with a better remaining warranty than a brand new van. For maybe a couple grand more than you're looking at.
Thanks guys, especially YoGeorge...that was the kinda input I was wanting. I went ahead yesterday and bought the van after crunching the numbers, having my mech. take a look and being advised by my accountant.
Turns out the van belonged to a cable company in Georgia and the service record looks like it was well treated. I also went to the dealership with the VIN and got all the specs on drivetrain, rear-end etc. Turns out it's got a 4.10 ratio differencial which to me compensates for the lower horses driving around these mountain roads.
I'll still be interested in the aftermarket positrac but that'll be down the road. My immediate plans are for a Flowmaster muffler (or Magna-Flow), K&N airfilter, trailer hitch, hubcaps/or rims (getting rid of the "dog bowls"), ventshades and a CD player. This thing has an fancy self-lowering ladder rack system if anyone wants it for used price or I'll see if the trailer place wants to trade it out for a hitch.
Also does anyone know of a good place to get pre-fabed door panels for the cargo area? I made some for my other van but have seen nice ones made out of diamond plate before.
I'll still be interested in the aftermarket positrac but that'll be down the road. ...
This thing has an fancy self-lowering ladder rack system if anyone wants it for used price or I'll see if the trailer place wants to trade it out for a hitch.
I drive my van in California, and have never taken it on a snowy or icy road. Is positrac of any interest, except for avoiding slick spots under one drive wheel? I realize my van's weakest traits are its light rear end, its awkwardness when driving in reverse, and its propensity to fishtail on a slick road. I don't know if I have positrac; I have never fishtailed.
Is there a way to use my Vehicle ID, online, to find the options my vehicle is equipped with?
Please tell me about the "self-lowering ladder." What is that? Something that extends from the rear of the van? Or is it for human feet, to get in and out of a passenger door? Sometimes I transport my elderly parents, and stepping into and out of the wide opening (I have a sliding side door) is a problem. We use step ladders that we carry around in the cargo area.
I am also interested in any compact, clever means of lifting objects that might weigh up to 200 pounds.
Thanks.
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Owner of '98 Chateau 5.4L V8 E40Tran
Tow package, step bumper
sliding side door
I drive my van in California, and have never taken it on a snowy or icy road. Is positrac of any interest, except for avoiding slick spots under one drive wheel? I realize my van's weakest traits are its light rear end, its awkwardness when driving in reverse, and its propensity to fishtail on a slick road. I don't know if I have positrac; I have never fishtailed.
Is there a way to use my Vehicle ID, online, to find the options my vehicle is equipped with?
.....
Thanks.
Hey JohnPeter...
Posi can make a van fishtail worse...if you go around a corner covered with black ice, for instance, and hit the throttle w/o posi, one wheel will tend to spin. With posi, both will spin and the rear may bust loose. Likewise on a crowned road covered with ice, posi can make a vehicle worse, because the rear wheels will both want to break loose and the rear will slide toward the curb (I used to drive old musclecars with baldish tires on crowned icy roads in Michigan....)
On the other hand, if you are driving thru deep snow, mud, ruts, etc, where you can bury one wheel before the other, posi will help get you through. because it will force torque through both rear wheels.
As for your van, there should be a tag on the rear axle if it has posi, and I believe there is an axle code on the door sticker which will also indicate if your van came with the original ford Trac Loc unit.
The link you provided says it applies to F series, but I found my axle code in my door jamb. It's "H9" and that corresponds to "limited slip" and "3.55" in the chart you provide. Makes sense to me, even though I suppose my vehicle is E series.
I guess that means I can go to the Sierra Nevada Mountains in winter and find some mushy roads to experiment with. Maybe later!
Actually, I suppose "limited slip" is better than "conventional" for our southern California roadways. On those rare occasions when I hit a wet spot, the solitary drive wheel that's on it shouldn't slip. Frankly, I don't drive that fast around corners, though.
I appreciate knowing all this, and thank you for your interest and time.
Sincerely,
John
__________________
Owner of '98 Chateau 5.4L V8 E40Tran
Tow package, step bumper
sliding side door
I run an 02 diesel E350 as an electrician so you can imagine the load, tools conduit rack, ladders, wire, boxes, etc. I think you'll be disappointed once you load it down. Before going on my own I had a company van fitted with a six cylinder, I couldn't get it over 50 mph uphill floored. I too had the 97 5.4 triton 250 prior to the diesel, it got out of its own way under load.
After 10 years and 97500 miles, I am of the opinion that my E150-class vehicle's front brakes are under-designed. Too small. They stop the vehicle acceptably, but they wear out too quickly.
Meanwhile, the rear brakes are "over-designed." (Nothing wrong with that.) I replaced them at 80,000 miles for the first time, and I could have driven the originals further.
On the front, I have used Pep Boys ceramic pads, numerous times. Downside there seemed to be that the front rotors seemed to warp. This was most conspicuous on one occasion when my wife came back from the mountains, on a Girl Scout trip which I did not attend. I don't know what she did but I theorize she must have ridden the brake all the way during the descent from altitude. Regardless of that experience, however, there was a pattern of premature replacement of rotors, and annoying brake pulsation in the interim.
More recently I have used semi-metallic pads, as a throwback to what I presume was original equipment. Just like with my originals, my front wheels have been filthy from the reddish-black wear. My last installation lasted 18,000 miles, never warped anything, but ATE the rotors. No problem, they are inexpensive. But I have never had a vehicle that eats pads... and rotors... like this vehicle does.
I can only imagine what a cargo van loaded with pipe and tools must do to the front brakes!
Can anyone tell me if the E250 and E350 have larger front brakes than the E150? I would hope so.
I believe that Chevy up-sized the front brakes in 2000, for the Suburban, to alleviate a similar annoyance.
Has Ford upgraded the brakes in the E150? If so, can anyone offer WHEN?
__________________
Owner of '98 Chateau 5.4L V8 E40Tran
Tow package, step bumper
sliding side door
Before my '02 E150, which has underdesigned brakes, I had a '96 GMC Savana with underdesigned brakes, and before that, an '86 GMC 2500 Vandura which had underdesigned brakes. The Savana was worse than the E150. From what I read, a lot of medium-large cars, most of the heavier minivans, and lots of other vehicles have similar issues. A while back, we had 5 vehicles in the family, and 4.5 of them had warped rotors on them....just about anything with ventilated rotors seems to have the problem. My '02 really has not been that bad, but I tend to baby the brakes, shift to lower gears on downhills, slow down gradually when I note that there is a red light up ahead. Using the brakes less aids economy anyway, taking more advantage of the momentum of the van.
The '08 E150 takes care of all that, by virtue of it no longer being an E150 with 5-lug wheels, but instead an 8-lug E250 with E150 badges on it. Giant brakes and axles. And 80 lb tires. And a GVW of 8520 lbs or more. I don't think I'd buy one. And I suspect that Ford did this because 50% or more of the E150 cargo van buyers would run them overloaded for their whole life and cost them warranty $$. There is no more Ford half-ton van. The min payload of the '08 E150 is like 3300 lbs...up from ~2000 lbs. in '07.
After 10 years and 97500 miles, I am of the opinion that my E150-class vehicle's front brakes are under-designed. Too small. They stop the vehicle acceptably, but they wear out too quickly.
Meanwhile, the rear brakes are "over-designed." (Nothing wrong with that.) I replaced them at 80,000 miles for the first time, and I could have driven the originals further.
Two things are obvious from your post if you think about it for a minute.
First, if you are overworking the front brakes and underworking the rear, the problem is the brake bias is too much toward the front. If you adjust the rears up a little tighter, you will get much more even braking, wear and reduce the issues with the front.
Second, using quality pads and rotors helps with the front rotor warping issue.
I used to burn up a set of front rotors in a single season of towing my racecar. While the rotors were worn, cracked and warped from the regular towing duty (25,000+ miles/season) the pads were typically about 2/3rds worn. I tried lots of different pads including the Performance Friction Carbon Metalics. I replaced the pads and rotors at the beginning of each racing season.
Then a few years ago I switched to the CarQuest brand ceramic pads and rotors. I redid the rear brakes at the same time using CarQuest brand shoes and after a few miles to seat the rear shoes, adjusted them up until they were tight enough to even out some of the front bias.
The results were significant. I have run the front pads/rotors for three seasons now with no warping. They are in the early stage of their fourth season and are only now showing the slightest hint of warping in heavy use.
So, to improve the E150 brake performance, life and durability, use quality rotors, good ceramic pads and properly adjust the rears.
Wow. I just thought a rotor was a rotor. I can imagine how pads can be different. But rotors!
Any change will have to wait for the next brake job...probably in two years. Still, I'll keep this in mind.
I just paid Autozone $55 for each rotor. That seems cheap to me. What, may I ask, did your rotors cost?
My semi-metallic pads were "free," because they have a lifetime warranty. Normal cost is less than $40. Of course, Autozone is "making it" by selling me rotors every time I do a brake job. Seems silly, doesn't it?
Your admonition for me to adjust my rear brakes is enormously appreciated. Yes, it seems obvious...only after I wrote this down for this forum. It just never registered with me before. And I just assumed that front brake wear, as I have observed, might be normal, given the "under-design" of my system. Well, now I am not quite so quick to assume the severity of this under-design. Now I suspect my operating habits are flawed.
Thanks to George for sharing his excellent knowledge on so many various models... and the comment on the '08 design. Makes sense. But I think my '98 commercial-sized van is big enough, already...at least for my use, which until now has been mainly to transport my family.
Is there no half-ton PASSENGER van, anymore, as of '08??
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Owner of '98 Chateau 5.4L V8 E40Tran
Tow package, step bumper
sliding side door
Trading vans, need advice!
