$3.99.9 Per Gallon??

[goneinsixty]

Originally Posted by mrxlh

He may have meant 1st ammendment right, I however meant 2nd. As the second ammendment in my part of the country pretty much protects the first.

I agree, in my part of the country as well.

[mnmwhit]

I'm from Alaska. My 2nd amendment rights are my 1st amendment rights.

Originally Posted by goneinsixty

I agree, in my part of the country as well.

[62rag]

Originally Posted by mrxlh

Well, you must not follow current events very much. Clinton single handedly killed the American Steel market, including their jobs to foreign competition. Ronnie, bailed out the failing Chrystler Corp and saved tens of thousands of Union jobs. Bush has took nothing back, its called market correction. Much of which presedent was set during the "glorious clinton years."

"Yes, Clinton did hand it too us, then Bush took it back. I've seen both sides, and I know fully well which one works best for me." -The us I refer to is air traffic controllers, not any one else.

Market correction? For separating airplanes? Interesting idea. Obviously you don't have any idea what your talking about. Bush recinded the order that required negotitions between government labor organizations and the government. It can't be any clearer. I'm pro-union, he's anti-union, he's in charge. If you want to call it someting else to make it sounds like it's not screwing over a whole bunch of people that work for the government, then I'm not sure what to say about that. I know when I get screwed, and I got screwed.

[tex25025]

Couple of problems that I have found throughout this novella of a thread.

1. Level of Government Involvement

I don't care of you like it or not, government has to be involved. It's the way our globel economy is set up. For better or for worse, the government is set up to do things like find alternative fuels and various other things(thru funding) that would normally take several highly profitable corporations to do otherwise. Now before people say I'm looking for a free handout, I make annual investments to our government in a very high tax bracket. I see this(as well as every tax payer should) as a return on my investment and I would consider this endeavor a much better return then giving free handouts to people that are just baby factories and nothing else. Now it takes groups of people to galvanize the government to do it(depending on what type of government of course), but ultimately the government has to be involved. It would be very hard for individual people to accomplish this on thier own(which is one of the reasons why this is a government responsibility.

2. Alternative Fuels

A. Fallacy of False Dilemma

You didn't think you would get a debate post from me without mentioning fallacies did you?

I see throughout the alternative fuel debate it's either oil v. this alt. fuel, or oil v. that alt. fuel, or oil v. other alt. fuel. While the oil part of that equation is true and correct. The other half is not. Oil is indeed in every thinkable facet of human existance, however that is also what got us in this postion. It doesn't have to be oil v. this or v. that, or v. the other, it could be oil v. this, that and the other. Have several fuels to incremently and hopefully in it's entirety replace need for oil and by having several that can hopefully remain cheaper in cost then just replacing one for another for everthing(which is what got us here in the first place).

B. Need for Alt. Fuels

In order for the status quo to remain, either demand has to go down or supply has to go up. Only the supply part has any remote chance of changing(I'm surprised noone harps on the bad boys of OPEC when they are in much more control of this then oil companies, within a certain degree, now oil companies do have their share of the responsibilities) is supply, but I don't see either one of these happening, so there is a true need, even if the alternatives fuels didn't totally replace oil for quite a while, it could still lengthen what we can get to easily to but cutting down on the demand. Now what we are thinking about now(bio diesel, alga oil fuel, LS9 etc.) all have their good and bad sides(I'm aware of both sides, maybe not everything on each side, but there is no need to go into that as it is not the point of this post), however, I would rather see my tax dollars go into finding something or several somethings that would lead to(or perhaps be) a sustainable combination that is far more longterm then crude oil then some of the things that it is going towards. Plus there are secondary benefits due to such endeavors like this that would also benefit people(but that's for another post).

[mrxlh]

Originally Posted by 62rag

"Yes, Clinton did hand it too us, then Bush took it back. I've seen both sides, and I know fully well which one works best for me." -The us I refer to is air traffic controllers, not any one else.

Market correction? For separating airplanes? Interesting idea. Obviously you don't have any idea what your talking about. Bush recinded the order that required negotitions between government labor organizations and the government. It can't be any clearer. I'm pro-union, he's anti-union, he's in charge. If you want to call it someting else to make it sounds like it's not screwing over a whole bunch of people that work for the government, then I'm not sure what to say about that. I know when I get screwed, and I got screwed.

Oh I understand where you are comming from. However being Union and all, you might try looking up the word Solidaridy. (sp?) Would the U.S. cease to exist without air travel? No. Your not as important than you think. I understand what you have invested in your career and all, however, aerospace as a whole is a very small fraction of the U.S. job sector. Automotive, Agricultural, Energy, Chemical, Steel/Metals, Tech are much larger than aerospace. I used to work in the aerospace industry, it is too much dependant on the economy and excess money to spend. Everyone needs energy, one way or the other.

[922 ELECTRIC]

Originally Posted by UGA33

Lets take everyone from all the diesel forums and head to washington to protest!!! Park about a 1000 super duties in front of the white house and tell em we aint moving till we see some relief. It may not work, but atleast we would get a good meet and greet in!!! Ill bring the hotdogs

And don't forget the smoke, sheet I 'll shove some military smoke bombs up my tailpipe.

[verumlike]

Originally Posted by arno

Just saw it last night, anyone really know why?

Midwest...

4.71 for diesel here

[George D.]

Ouch I just payed 3.72 on tuesday

[magusjinx]

$ 4.35 ... AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH ...

A bit over $ 260 to fill both tanks ...

Jeep is only $ 3.85 a gallon ... Guess which one gets driven most?

[scatgo]

4.50 plus around here. Wish I could get diesel at the prices you guys get it.

[tex25025]

Just got up to 3.99 here.

[spence13e]

Originally Posted by tex25025

Just got up to 3.99 here.

drove across a large part of the state this weekend and it was a steady 3.99 to 4.09 the entire trip. first time i paid over 4 bucks. ugh.

[tex25025]

Originally Posted by spence13e

drove across a large part of the state this weekend and it was a steady 3.99 to 4.09 the entire trip. first time i paid over 4 bucks. ugh.

Once it hits 5 here then that'll be what I had to pay for that little bit after Katrina had hit.

[empiretc]

when it hits $5, i will buy the kit from DFA. I am already getting a lot of WVO while trying to get setup for bio. May just have to forget bio and convert.

[vincewood30]

If it hits $5 a gallon here I'll be using the wife's 2008 Volvo to pull my pressure washing trailer with.

'07 Ford F-350 12' Flatbed, 6.0L, 3.73LS Still Not Even 10K Miles on the truck.