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2007+ Expedition & Navigator 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010 Ford Expedition and Lincoln Navigator

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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 02-28-2008, 01:01 PM
07EXPYEL 07EXPYEL is offline
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Heavy Duty Radiator differences?

I have the heavy duty tow package and wondered what makes the (536) package radiator heavy duty. From what I could tell, the radiator isn’t thicker, wider, or taller.


So I was checking out the ford fleet site (great resource for technical info) and found the specs for the F150. All 2008 F150’s all have the SAME size radiator for 4.2LV6, 4.6V8, OR 5.4V8 and the cooling system capacity is the same for Standard or Super Cooling (varies with engine size). The difference for the “Super Cooling” is the Fins per inch. Standard is 13.50 and Super Cooling is 19.05 fins per inch.

I’m going to guess that more “Fins per inch” is what makes the Expedition radiator heavy duty. The larger (536) package transmission cooler is much easier to tell the difference.



https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2008/vs_pdf/f150_08bb.pdf

look at page 10 of 14.

>>

After I wrote this, I checked the Expedition owner’s manual and I’m confused again. Without rear heat, Heavy Duty cooling is .5 qts more and with rear heat Heavy Duty is .6 qts more.

>>

Hopefully someone with an inside knowledge can explain this.
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Old 02-29-2008, 06:40 AM
chuck s chuck s is offline
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Try

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas.../f150_08bb.pdf

-- Chuck
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Old 02-29-2008, 08:22 AM
07EXPYEL 07EXPYEL is offline
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Chuck, for some reason the click-on link doesn't work direclty from www.ford-trucks.com. I tried your link with no better sucess, then I copied & pasted my link in a new browser and it worked. Perhaps it's just my IE settings.
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Old 02-29-2008, 11:13 AM
chevy24d chevy24d is offline
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That is interesting... I just had my truck upgraded and could not see the difference in thickness either. Actually Chuck took pics and I compared and never understood what made them HD.
BTW - I could not get either link to work.

FWIW - Here is a pic of my new hd rad and the new larger tranny cooler
http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/h...t=IMG_1727.jpg
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Old 02-29-2008, 05:00 PM
chuck s chuck s is offline
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It's this forum. It prefixes "http://" to the link for some reason.

Lets see if this works:

-- Chuck
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Old 02-29-2008, 05:05 PM
chuck s chuck s is offline
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http://<a href="https://www.fleet.fo...0_08bb.pdf</a>
Last try.

-- Chuck

Nope, it's this forum's software that messes up the link
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Old 09-15-2008, 11:12 AM
Dakota123 Dakota123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07EXPYEL View Post
I have the heavy duty tow package and wondered what makes the (536) package radiator heavy duty. From what I could tell, the radiator isn’t thicker, wider, or taller.


So I was checking out the ford fleet site (great resource for technical info) and found the specs for the F150. All 2008 F150’s all have the SAME size radiator for 4.2LV6, 4.6V8, OR 5.4V8 and the cooling system capacity is the same for Standard or Super Cooling (varies with engine size). The difference for the “Super Cooling” is the Fins per inch. Standard is 13.50 and Super Cooling is 19.05 fins per inch.

I’m going to guess that more “Fins per inch” is what makes the Expedition radiator heavy duty. The larger (536) package transmission cooler is much easier to tell the difference.



https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/2008/vs_pdf/f150_08bb.pdf

look at page 10 of 14.

>>

After I wrote this, I checked the Expedition owner’s manual and I’m confused again. Without rear heat, Heavy Duty cooling is .5 qts more and with rear heat Heavy Duty is .6 qts more.

>>

Hopefully someone with an inside knowledge can explain this.

After suffering an overheat 300 yards from the top of Rabbit Ears Pass in Colorado, near Steamboat Springs (east-bound, 7 1/2% grade), I decided to replace my standard-cooling radiator and transmission oil cooler with the super-cooling parts. I'm not entirely convinced that I didn't have some other problem like a marginal thermostat or radiator cap (I replaced those, too) but I want piece of mind for the future. Vehicle is a 2007 Expedition EB 4x4, standard-length.

I did the work over the weekend. The standard-cooling radiator carries a 7L148005AC engineering no. (this is the sticker on the part itself), which corresponds to a 7L1Z-8005-A part no. The super cooling engineering no. is 7L148005BC and the part no. is 7L1Z-8005-B.

There is actually a visible difference once you put both radiators side-by-side. The fins extend farther on one side on the super-cooling part -- flush with the side tank on one side and within 1/4" or so of flush on the other, whereas on the standard-cooling part the fins are flush on one side but only within 1/2" or so of flush on the other. Also, the fins are much thinner, aiding heat transfer (and making them much more fragile, easier to flatten if you brush against them).

The job was maybe a 2 1/2 out of five on the pain-in-the-a** meter, and took me about 6 hours including replacement of the transmission oil cooler. Some of that was head scratching, figuring how to gain enough clearance between the A/C condenser and the radiator to allow the radiator to come out-- I didn't want to have to dump the A/C charge.

The good news is that it can be done without overstressing anything, either on removal or re-installation. I did decide to take a short cut and break the condenser support tabs off of the old radiator to speed things along.

Happy to help if anyone wants more detail.

Dakota123
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Old 09-15-2008, 12:58 PM
chuck s chuck s is offline
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The larger transmission radiator is 7 row? Part numbers?

Thanks,

-- Chuck
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Old 09-15-2008, 01:16 PM
Dakota123 Dakota123 is offline
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It was actually six, as compared to four rows of the original part. (Or 8 and 6 if you count the outer bands). I don't remember seeing an engineering no., but the super-cooling part no. is 7L1Z7A095B.

Dakota123
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:02 PM
07EXPYEL 07EXPYEL is offline
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Dakota, when you overheated did the engine power back off or shut off completely? Here's a text copy from the owners regarding overheating and the failsafe cooling:

How fail-safe cooling works
If the engine begins to overheat:
• The engine coolant temperature gauge will move to the red (hot)
area.
• The symbol will illuminate. (thermometer in water)
• The indicator light will illuminate. (engine icon)
If the engine reaches a preset over-temperature condition, the engine
will automatically switch to alternating cylinder operation. Each disabled
cylinder acts as an air pump and cools the engine.
When this occurs the vehicle will still operate. However:
• The engine power will be limited.
• The air conditioning system will be disabled.
Continued operation will increase the engine temperature:
• The engine will completely shut down.
• Steering and braking effort will increase.
Once the engine temperature cools, the engine can be re-started. Take
your vehicle to an authorized dealer as soon as possible to minimize
engine damage.
When fail-safe mode is activated
You have limited engine power when in the fail-safe mode, so drive the
vehicle with caution. The vehicle will not be able to maintain high speed
operation and the engine will run rough. Remember that the engine is
capable of completely shutting down automatically to prevent engine
damage, therefore:
1. Pull off the road as soon as safely possible and turn off the engine.
2. Arrange for the vehicle to be taken to an authorized dealer.
3. If this is not possible, wait a short period for the engine to cool.
4. Check the coolant level and replenish if low.
Never remove the coolant reservoir cap while the engine is
running or hot.
5. Restart the engine and take your vehicle to an authorized dealer.

Does the temperature gauge actually work to warn you before you overheat, or is it like the oil pressure guage (always in the middle). If you know you're getting warm, you can aways turn on the heater (rear too if you have it). Since you're in CO I can't imagine that its all that hot anyway. If your engine got that hot, I hate to think how hot your tranny got
I have the MSD Dashhawk so I can keep an eye on all the temps while towing (engine temp, head temp, and tranny temp)
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Old 09-15-2008, 02:35 PM
Dakota123 Dakota123 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07EXPYEL View Post
Dakota, when you overheated did the engine power back off or shut off completely? Here's a text copy from the owners regarding overheating and the failsafe cooling:


Does the temperature gauge actually work to warn you before you overheat, or is it like the oil pressure guage (always in the middle). If you know you're getting warm, you can aways turn on the heater (rear too if you have it). Since you're in CO I can't imagine that its all that hot anyway. If your engine got that hot, I hate to think how hot your tranny got
I have the MSD Dashhawk so I can keep an eye on all the temps while towing (engine temp, head temp, and tranny temp)

Yep, it did cut back to alternate cylinder cooling mode. That was actually my first clue that something was wrong -- I had looked at my temp guage literally an instant before, and it was parked as it always was, just below half way. How quickly it went from fine to not fine surprised me, and is why I'm wondering if the thermostat stuck. There was also a very strong cross breeze, 20 MPH, and that can do funny things to airflow. I didn't see anything else wrong. I checked the coolant level before we set out, and the fan clutch appears to be working properly.

The temp gage acted screwy while I was getting the situation under control. A couple of times it acted like an idiot light (or the oil pressure gage) but once it seemed to act like a proper gage. So I can't really answer the question.

It wasn't very hot (80 degrees), but at 9,500 feet, air has reduced thermal transfer properties.

I agree, not the best thing for the trans. Damage is more often caused by heat+time, and this was thankfully a quick process. So (knock on wood) I should be OK.

Dakota123
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Old 09-15-2008, 04:05 PM
07EXPYEL 07EXPYEL is offline
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Were you towing at the time? If so what were you towing and how heavy?
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Old 09-15-2008, 06:23 PM
Dakota123 Dakota123 is offline
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Yes, I was (sorry -- I had posted this first to another list and forgot that I hadn't provided much background here).

The trailer is a 26' hard-side, no slides. It weighs 5,500 lbs empty. We were heading home so there was probably another 500 lbs of stuff, plus another 575 lbs in the Expedition. So I was a bit over 6,000 lbs, but far closer to 6,000 lbs than 9,000 lbs.

At the time I was in 2nd gear, 3/4 throttle, 4500 -- 4750 rpms and 50 mph or so. Hard working yes, but not screaming maxed. (For reference 3rd gear dropped rpms to 3500 or so, but it wouldn't maintain speed.) That is much better than the '05 I had w/ the 4-speed, where I would have been in first gear and half throttle, 40 mph and wishing I had a better gear.

For hills like that, I think the 3.31 gears would be better (with my trailer weight). A bit fewer revs on really steep grades. There was plenty of power left.

Dakota123
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:11 PM
07EXPYEL 07EXPYEL is offline
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Dakota, if you were #6,000+, I'd say that's pretty heavy for not having the heavy duty radiator & larger cooler. Have actually weighed your trailer & truck, if not I think you'll find its heavier than you think (that's what most people find anyway) Without the HD tow package, I'm assuming you have 3.31 gears, not the 3.73's. The 6 speed transmission really does make a huge difference when towing, much less gear hunting compared to 4 speeds.
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:59 PM
Dakota123 Dakota123 is offline
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The weight was only somewhat above 6,000 lbs (as I said, much closer to the 6,000 lbs, which is the standard tow rating, than 9,000 lbs, which is the optional rating) but the frontal area is probably the difference. The 6,000 lb tow rating only allows for the frontal area of the Expedition, whereas the 9,000 lb tow rating allows for 60 sq ft or something (basically 8' by 8'). So given the weight a bit above the tow rating and the frontal area, I found the limit.

No, it has 3.73's -- standard on '07 4x4s. The 3.31s came standard on the 4x2s.

I ordered the Dashhawk. I never had any concerns with my '05, but I'm leery enough that I agree it is cheap insurance.

Dakota123
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Old 09-16-2008, 04:59 PM
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