I don't know if I am alone but I think the quality of most things has gone to crap (cheap). I think personally now that the modern car, truck is more dependable, safe, more comfortable, and efficient than ever. Nothing against those older vehicles. I not saying that the modular motor is the best thing Ford ever did or anything, but they are way underrated just look how many different applications they have covered and done so well.
ok maybe i dont know much about what im talking about, you might not understand my way of thinking. i know about the history of my older truck, dont say that i dont have any claims to back that up, i know that for sure. I knew the guy who owned it before i did he abused it and treated it like crap. he drove it for many years.
the only point i am trying to get across is that in my mind something that is simpler has less room for failure. take two devices that do the same thing, but one has 3 primary parts, and the other has 6 primary parts. the one with less parts will be easier to fix and more than likely last longer. to me trucks are just too hi tech, and arent simple basic trucks any more. it just appears that way to me. oh yeah and about the 3.3 V6 all im saying is that a simple low tech, pushrod engine can last as long as anything else these days. and yes i know the 3.3 V6 and the modular engines are two different ballparks when it comes to the engine design.
anyways im about done with this post, its getting ridiculous, were arguing over irrelevant stuff. and yes you called me out, you caught me talking about what i obviously know nothing about. congrats. MisterCMK, how about a truce? i dont wanna argue. no hard feelings. you win.
All I can add to this is that my 2001 5.4L tows almost as good as my 77 F150 did with the 460. But the 2001 has a/c and is a SuperCab and is 4x4. If it was a standard cab 2wd, it would probably outpull the 460. Regardless, it does all and more than the 460 did. And gets over twice the gas mileage doing it and is quieter and much nicer to drive. My 460 had headers and true duals, a CompCams 268H and matching valvetrain along with Performer intake and carb.
I like the old engines and miss my 77, but the new ones are much more efficient and run for a very long time!! http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/70...ile-5-4-a.html
Have a 2008 F250 w/5.4L and 3.73 ratio. Like Redford, i tow a lot. Add to that, am located in the mountains of New England. So if you want tough and bad and cold and dirt roads and steep street grades up and down hill... The 5.4 is fine for the towing of 4.5k lbs or so (enclosed trailer 7 wide 18 long). Was in Florida a few weeks back and she easily had more than enough power to romp and manhandle for those weenie flat roads.
I you want a race truck and lower gas milage feel free to spend more on a truck. BTW, i am a race car driver in SCCA (FC open wheel). What is great with the F250 is the integrated tow package, good brakes, and she will engine brake when appropriate.
Besides, with gas prices being what they are, and they are going to go way up folks...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LxMan1
There aren't too many new engines out there without plastic intake manifolds any more. They are lighter and don't absorb heat like aluminum does. They still use aluminum for the coolant crossovers.
My 5.4L has been trouble free.
Exactly! Anyone who has dyno'ed an engine for long periods of time knows about 'heat soak.' basically, the cooler the air that reaches the combustion chamber the better. Of course BEWARE K&N as you want good filtration!!!
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Steven
2008 F-250SD 5.4L Off-Road 3.73
Track Only Ford Powered F2000 99/00 Van Diemen Chassis
Why your 5.0 does better over them passes is beyond me... I have had the same experiences and found that the 4.6 did better than 5.0, 5.4 did better than 5.8. My first question would be what kind of gears are in these trucks? If that 5.0 is lower geared than the 5.4 then that would probably explain it.
All of my previous trucks were geared in the 3.50-3.73 range. My father-in-law has a 5.0 in a '96 F-150, he traded in a '97 4.6 for it... he wishes he'd kept the '97, cuz the 5.0 is an absolute dog in the mountain passes, especially when towing.
For the record, the 3v 5.4 I had in my '04 crew even outpulled my old 390 in the mountain passes.
I agree regarding the modulars. They outperform the engines they replaced. I get it that guys love their older motors as I did when I owned them, but the modulars put out more HP per litre and are generally very reliable. That doesn't mean the 302, 351, and 460 weren't good engines.
well i guess you got a point about the modular engines outperforming the ones they replaced. but it just seems like everyone bags on the older motors though, "my 4.6L can whoop your 5.0L" stuff like that. Their praise of the modular motors, makes it look like they think the old ones suck. I dont care about these new modulars, id love to have an old 460 BB carbed runnin a big cam, long tube headers with some glasspacks, i just love the old school carbed big blocks of the 70s that had raw horsepower.Im only 20 years old, but i like old school stuff better. thats just me, dont like it, oh well.
oh yeah and my theory on new trucks is that in regard to all vehicles made today, america doesnt build them to last anymore. it doesnt matter if your truck will last for thirty years or not, because no one is going to hold on to them for any longer than maybe 5 to 10 years. people buy brand new cars every three years when there was nothing wrong with the one they had before.
I've got to jump in on this one. I've owned a 5.4 (2000 Expedition), great engine, did some towing with it. Sold it with 120,000 miles and didnt change the plugs until it had 90,000. No issues, good engine. Lets dont mistake nostalgia with reality. We all tend to forget the bad things about the old days and only remember the good. Surely I'm not the oldest guy on here (I'm 43) that can remember when it was a pretty big deal to see an old V8 get over a 100,000 miles on it. And that was changing oil every 3,000 and plugs, points, cap and rotor every 20,000 between.
Face facts, the newer engines produce more HP per cube and run longer with less maintenance.
Do I like the ideas of the simple old engines? Yes! Thats why I love old farm tractors and recently refurbed an old Massey. My first vehicle was a 70 F100 with a 302, I loved that truck. I'm getting ready to build a 5.0 for my mine and my sons 94 f150. Yes its EFI but at least its got pushrods!
But to say that the old carbureated engines were 'better' is really subjective at best. I love them but they arent better in real measurement that I can think of other than maybe, better to work on due to simplicity. But we sure worked on them a lot more.
I'm not sure what is meant by America builds vehicles to not last. Anyone alive in the seventies and early 80's? You want to talk about junk built to not last, c'mon. I did a research paper in college looking at overall quality of American cars vs Japanese cars in the 80's. It wasnt even close, Chrysler jumped on the quality bandwagon first out of absolute necessity (they were ready to go out of business), Ford was right behind them and GM (being the monolith that they were/are) were the last to take the Japanese outlook on quality seriously.
The efficientcy of the older generation motors wasn't up to the level of the newer ones. It's that simple. They aren't having to use cubic inch brute power to make the big numbers. Carbs were so inefficient from the factory. Mixing fuel and air and making it get to the combustion chamber was terrible at best. They now can improve power with factory engine designing using earlier knowledge with today's technology. Yes the old engines were easier to work on and easier to tune but I'm learning to tune what I have. I like them myself. It's a new challenge since I'm not working at Holley any more. I'm shooting for 100k or more with the price of the new trucks.
my 03 5.4 f350 with srw sc sb 4x4 with 3:73 gears. has not let me down yet it definately would out pull my 85 with the 302 any day of the week. it gets around 12mpg but the thing is it is'nt an escort or a focus it's a one ton truck that i pull a 25 ft. goosneck almost daily. hauling old jeeps, pickups around back and forth from my garage house etc. i agree that over 10k. i'd say get the v10 or the diesel. i do not agree with the idea of the 5.4 not being a very capable engine by any means. i have 100k trouble free miles of everyday hard use. compared to my 85 that stopped at 96k.
But to say that the old carbureated engines were 'better' is really subjective at best. I love them but they arent better in real measurement that I can think of other than maybe, better to work on due to simplicity. But we sure worked on them a lot more.
You hit the nail on the head there my friend.
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Chris
1994 Mustang GT
1992 Explorer XLT
2000 Expedition EB
well i guess you got a point about the modular engines outperforming the ones they replaced. but it just seems like everyone bags on the older motors though, "my 4.6L can whoop your 5.0L" stuff like that. Their praise of the modular motors, makes it look like they think the old ones suck. I dont care about these new modulars, id love to have an old 460 BB carbed runnin a big cam, long tube headers with some glasspacks, i just love the old school carbed big blocks of the 70s that had raw horsepower.Im only 20 years old, but i like old school stuff better. thats just me, dont like it, oh well.
So what if they think that the pushrod motors suck? You couldn't pay me enough to have a carbed truck (not talking toy or weekend toy here). Have you actually had any experience with the modular motors and performance? They have a helluva lot of potential but it takes a little more knowledge than slapping on a double pumper, headers and a cam. A whipple supercharger and a tune on a 04 Cobra gives you 540hp and that is out of the little 4.6. Look at the lightnings and such. They make stupid amounts of power and you can drive it every day and have it start right up the first time and every time. There is nothing wrong with an older motor and truck but technology advances for a reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1991F150lvr
oh yeah and my theory on new trucks is that in regard to all vehicles made today, america doesnt build them to last anymore. it doesnt matter if your truck will last for thirty years or not, because no one is going to hold on to them for any longer than maybe 5 to 10 years. people buy brand new cars every three years when there was nothing wrong with the one they had before.
O RLY? Maybe that explains why when I sort F-150s I see quite a few with that evil modular motor that are over 200k? Oh wait. I'd like to see a 70s truck last that long without any major work.
__________________
Chris
1994 Mustang GT
1992 Explorer XLT
2000 Expedition EB
I think the fact that 1991F150lvr is only 20 years old explains alot. Nothing against you 150lvr, I've got a 20 year old son and he is a great kid who loves cars and trucks but he wasnt around for the 'good ole days' so he doesnt understand what it was really like.
Technology is great, we all like the old stuff, it was simpler but it was not more reliable nor did it have more power for the same cubes. There was a reason the old odometers stopped at 99,999, not many vehicles made it past that.....without a lot of work.
You got to love 20 year old young men though, I'm still not too old to remember. You KNOW you've got it all figured out and you can whip the world. If we could only bottle that......
yeah ive guess youve gotta point there about my age. but whatever. i just think older stuff last longer, to me it does. These new modulars might be able to run a lot of miles, but who knows how long the actual truck will last. oh yeah, about the 5 digit odometer theory. some chevys and dodges in the early nineties had 6 digit odometers while ford trucks only had 5. i only remember ford putting 6 digit ones in there trucks in 92 when it went to the new bodystyle. any ford truck before only had 5. my point being is that i dont know why ford only put 5 digit odometers in there older trucks, but just because it gets to 99,999 miles and goes back to 00,000 doesnt mean the truck wont last a long time. plus i still dont see why your modular motor is so great, besides tuning and wide aftermarket support. my buddys got an o5 FX4 5.4L and he thinks chevys 5.3L is a way more powerful motor, hes not that impressed with his 5.4L. and plus there has to be some 5.0L Crown Vic, truck, or bronco thats got well over 200,000 miles on it. Some ones had to have racked up some miles on there old ford sometime some where in the past 30 years. besides how many pickups do you see that are more than 25 years old that still have the original motor and run to this very day. I cant believe how narrow minded you guys are, thinking old stuff cant last. I admit older engines arent as efficient, carbs pump more gas than you need, but thats not to say the motor cant last. sorry I had to rant, didnt mean to offend anybody.
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