Actually most developed countries see this happen without any intervention.
(allow me to think for a few seconds so not to sound prejudice).
In europe, the population of " tradiational europeans" has actually leveled off and in some cases is starting to drop. We should start to see this happen in the US very soon for those that have been in this country for years. There are many reasons for this. Change in lifestyle, more mobile workforce, etc. The gains in those european countries is coming from immigrants, who are still used to their less developed lifestyles and cultures. One reason to have many children is because the infant mortality rate is high and more children are more free employees to work on the farm.
So in most cases it will work itself out I think. But I also think the goverment should have some type of guidlines and even incentives to have no more than 2 children. It would be nice to have a global group of scientists get together to determine what is a sustainable population for this planet and take action to assume we are around that number.
Did I come out sounding prejudice? If I did I'm truely sorry. Didn't mean too.
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Duane
It's better to burn out... than to fade away - Joe Elliot
No. But I just want to make the point that I am not and don't think that way. It's easy for something to be misread and sound racist when talking about a senstive topic such as this.
I believe canada's population growth has already tapered off, the only region still growing is the west (alberta and BC), and most of the national population growth is through immigration and will continue to be in the years ahead. The problem is that our (almost any) economy is geared toward a growing population where the youth outnumber the seniors. The reduced productivity, and higher healthcare costs will take their toll when it comes to readjusting the economy.
Right now, the wave of boomer retirees is causing a construction boom (which I currently earn a living off of) as they begin to spend their life savings, but it remains to be seen how this will affect the economy over the long term, sooner or later the housing bubble will burst up here too, though not as badly as in the states.
France is facing a crisis right now because of an old population, influx of often unwelcome immigrants, and a very generous social system.
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1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
I'm not sure exactly what the half life on the spent nuclear fuel is. I know that in France and Japan they have a technolgoy to "reclaim" it and that waste can be disposed of as normal waste in less than 200 years.
well they have ways to reuse the rods but a half lifes a half life no changing that
in a mangement class i had the prof cited stats from 05 that said healthcare costs per worker in the US were 6500, Canada 800 and something like 50 overseas, i dont have any sources for this info but if it is true this could be part of the problem why no one can turn a profit in N America.
I also saw ford is bringing that transit van thing over here from europe ugly has hell but i think its a way for them to see how we respond to european models, maybe theyll bring the cars over as well
I wonder when us americans are going to catch up with other countries? Europe's vehicles from the little I saw are more than 50% diesel. Look at the mileage numbers that the VW TDI is doing. We have the technology to run 100% biodiesel even in cold weather, but very few big companies are doing anything about it. The best part of Biodiesel is the little farmer can accually get in on some good profit with soybeans/corn production. Another thing I saw in Europe is the large network of short distance public transit, mostly in the forms of high speed trains. I rode one in Amsterdam for about 50 miles and the fair was like maybe $6 US. that would be hard to beat cost wise and no legal way to beat time wise.
Economics dictate what the market will do. nothing will change untill its cheaper to do it.
Example: Diesel is a much more efficient fuel source than gas. about 30% more effeicient. The problem is diesel costs about 30 cents more a gallon throughout the country. Diesel powered trucks cost about 8 to 10 thousand more to buy new over the same truck gas powered. Diesel powered car only cost about 5 thousand more than there gas counterpart.
Based on the number's above and the average driving a person does in 1 year (15,000 National AVG) it would take about 7 years to break even and start reciving the benifits of driving a diesel.
These figures also don't take into acount the extra money paid buy having to finance a larger amount and/or have to finance for a longer time.
The vast majority of people in the country would lose money doing this. This is a portion of the problem Hybrid vehicles have had selling. The economics don't work for the consumer.
Economics dictate what the market will do. nothing will change untill its cheaper to do it.
Example: Diesel is a much more efficient fuel source than gas. about 30% more effeicient. The problem is diesel costs about 30 cents more a gallon throughout the country. Diesel powered trucks cost about 8 to 10 thousand more to buy new over the same truck gas powered. Diesel powered car only cost about 5 thousand more than there gas counterpart.
Based on the number's above and the average driving a person does in 1 year (15,000 National AVG) it would take about 7 years to break even and start reciving the benifits of driving a diesel.
These figures also don't take into acount the extra money paid buy having to finance a larger amount and/or have to finance for a longer time.
The vast majority of people in the country would lose money doing this. This is a portion of the problem Hybrid vehicles have had selling. The economics don't work for the consumer.
Curious to where you got your numbers....
Last I checked, the PSD was around $6,500 more than the V10.
My Jetta TDI was, if memory serves, $1,100 more than the top gasser version.
While I have always agreed with your assessment concerning trucks....(even if the figures are inflated) I bought the Jetta because it was a reasonable option at the time.
Turns out the Mrs. and I could not handle the in town diesel experience regarding responsiveness/drivability.....we sold it in less than 2 years.
I keep hearing how diesels are getting closer to driving like gassers.....and I thnk the Duramax/Allison is a GREAT combo....but I have yet to drive a car diesel that is as responsive as the gasser version.
Even when diesel was waaaay cheaper than gas, the American public never embraced the idea of oil burners in cars.
FTE Fred assures me that the Ford/Rover 4.4L is as a refined diesel as anything......and we have a gentleman's bet on the cost of admission...but in a 1/2 ton truck it better be reasonably priced (like you're stating) AND it has to perform like a gasser IMHO.....the majority of 1/2 ton buyers aren't the pseudo-macho diesel owning bunch the 3/4 ton and up buyers are.
Last edited by DOHCmarauder : 02-14-2008 at 05:20 PM.
I wonder when us americans are going to catch up with other countries? Europe's vehicles from the little I saw are more than 50% diesel. Look at the mileage numbers that the VW TDI is doing. We have the technology to run 100% biodiesel even in cold weather, but very few big companies are doing anything about it. The best part of Biodiesel is the little farmer can accually get in on some good profit with soybeans/corn production. Another thing I saw in Europe is the large network of short distance public transit, mostly in the forms of high speed trains. I rode one in Amsterdam for about 50 miles and the fair was like maybe $6 US. that would be hard to beat cost wise and no legal way to beat time wise.
Just my two cents.
FYI, anything over 5% biodiesel voids VW's warranty.....
My thought on the higher diesel prices (and I'm probably Wrong) is that the fuel companies raised the diesel price to help lower the gas price, and my reasoning for this conclusion is when I purchased my diesel, diesel prices were about 20-30 cents cheaper. I've never heard or read anything to change my reasoning. Any thoughts?
Last I checked, the PSD was around $6,500 more than the V10.
My Jetta TDI was, if memory serves, $1,100 more than the top gasser version.
While I have always agreed with your assessment concerning trucks....(even if the figures are inflated) I bought the Jetta because it was a reasonable option at the time.
Turns out the Mrs. and I could not handle the in town diesel experience regarding responsiveness/drivability.....we sold it in less than 2 years.
I keep hearing how diesels are getting closer to driving like gassers.....and I thnk the Duramax/Allison is a GREAT combo....but I have yet to drive a car diesel that is as responsive as the gasser version.
Even when diesel was waaaay cheaper than gas, the American public never embraced the idea of oil burners in cars.
FTE Fred assures me that the Ford/Rover 4.4L is as a refined diesel as anything......and we have a gentleman's bet on the cost of admission...but in a 1/2 ton truck it better be reasonably priced (like you're stating) AND it has to perform like a gasser IMHO.....the majority of 1/2 ton buyers aren't the pseudo-macho diesel owning bunch the 3/4 ton and up buyers are.
What year was that VW diesel? I heard good things about the 2006 TDIs, better MPG than a prius (not saying much, I know) and quite fun to drive.
Diesels are a superior design of engine, period. But in reality, you don't really have to run them on diesel and nothing else, it is possible to make a diesel engine to run on any liquid fuel if built right. The lack of a throttle valve means that a well made diesel will always get better MPGs than a well made gasser. The fuel system also lends itself more easily to multifueling.
But What I have noticed, is that consistently, diesels are being used more and more for high power instead of fuel economy. The example of the australian ranger shows that its possible to have your cake and eat it too, they are rated at 30 MPG. The F100 in argentina also draws a good compromise for power and economy. Theres nothing wrong with high power, but it would be nice to have the choice of better economy.
Here, the go big or go home mentality is still king, but with fuel prices creaping up, something has got to give.
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1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
My thought on the higher diesel prices (and I'm probably Wrong) is that the fuel companies raised the diesel price to help lower the gas price, and my reasoning for this conclusion is when I purchased my diesel, diesel prices were about 20-30 cents cheaper. I've never heard or read anything to change my reasoning. Any thoughts?
Diesel prices increased when the general public started buying a significant number of diesel truck. When that happened the government wanted to tax diesel where as before they didn't because it was only used for 18 wheelers for the most part.
Last I checked, the PSD was around $6,500 more than the V10.
My Jetta TDI was, if memory serves, $1,100 more than the top gasser version.
While I have always agreed with your assessment concerning trucks....(even if the figures are inflated) I bought the Jetta because it was a reasonable option at the time.
Turns out the Mrs. and I could not handle the in town diesel experience regarding responsiveness/drivability.....we sold it in less than 2 years.
I keep hearing how diesels are getting closer to driving like gassers.....and I thnk the Duramax/Allison is a GREAT combo....but I have yet to drive a car diesel that is as responsive as the gasser version.
Even when diesel was waaaay cheaper than gas, the American public never embraced the idea of oil burners in cars.
FTE Fred assures me that the Ford/Rover 4.4L is as a refined diesel as anything......and we have a gentleman's bet on the cost of admission...but in a 1/2 ton truck it better be reasonably priced (like you're stating) AND it has to perform like a gasser IMHO.....the majority of 1/2 ton buyers aren't the pseudo-macho diesel owning bunch the 3/4 ton and up buyers are.
The figures for the prices where taken from my research and that of a study done by a professor at a collage. (what collage I can't rember but I will get that info to you) I also go the info from the book Freedom from Oil. (availabol at any book store) The figures where for all trucks not just one brand. Also factored into the price difference was the need in most cases to buy a stronger transmission. The numbers were just rough number that was close to the middle. If you got a car that was diesel for only 1,100 more then you made a good deal according to the numbers that i've seen.
The point of my comments was never about the drivability or capabuility of diesel vs gas it was mearly to isllistrate that most people are unable to make the diesel's gas milage benifit them.
I don't know how much more expencive the new F-150 diesel will be compared to the gasser. I would probly buy the diesel but not for the fuel savings but for the improved capabuility that it will bring.
Your points are valid and every individual that is put in the position to buy a gas or diesel should consider all the pro's vs con's not just the fuel economy.
Good on you for questioning my facts, to few people do that now. I have no problems citing my sources and if you have sources that differ from mine I encourage you to tell me.
Last edited by 2002 F-150 FX4 : 02-14-2008 at 07:49 PM.
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