See What Diesel Did Today!

[DR JOE]

Originally Posted by Markadeck

This will be my last non PSD related post, at least until something else really upsets me. But having seen American's brains and innards scattered all over jungle and rice paddie I've become a firm believer in the sort of war as was finally used in WW-2, where were those places? Oh yeah Nagasaki, and Hiroshima. Don't think one American life was lost in those two incidents. Seems to me it was the Jap's that attacted first. Kind of ring a bell with the happening in NYC Sept. 11, 2001. Has Japan ever considered taking over the USA again?

Mark, you have earned the right to say what ever is on your mind.... I am sitting here, because of people like you, who stepped up... Baby you do what ever you want... it's fine with me...

And while I am at it, I feel that if you served and did see war time you should not have to pay taxes for the rest of your life, as payment from the people of the USA to you...

As far as the price of fuel, no maybe the praz has nothing to do with it being $3.++ a gallon. But the man has done NOTHING to help either... At least Slick Whilly opened the flood gates and let the price drop... bush is paying back all the people who put him in there...

These are my 2 cents...

Doc.

[crosbo]

Yikes! I just pumped in another $40 at $3.49 this evening, and felt darn lucky...as the other 3 stations within 5 miles were all at $3.59...then I went home and finished topping Big Red off with Bio.

[crosbo]

Well...to a certain extent...and in many different ways, of which several FTE members have pointed...we are doing this to ourselves.

I love to drive...always have...from when I was around 3 or 4 and I used to get to sit in my mother's lap and drive my grandpa's pickup down the dirt road in "granny" (do they still make pickups with such?) while my grandpa, dad and uncles were moving the cattle down the road to another pasture...to when I was 8 years old and started to get to drive the tractor and plow on my own, to my first Ford pickup when I was 13...to today. I've had a jeep, '68 'stang, 3 Mercedes, 2 BMW's, some of GM's '80's diesels, some others and my Powerstroke. I've driven Internationals and Mack trucks up and down the US while cutting wheat, corn, milo etc...and still today, I get very "itchy" if I don't at least get a "mini road trip" in every couple of days. I have a BMW 735i that I absolutely love...and loved flying down the highway between Salt Lake City and Idaho Falls at 90-115mph late at night when returning from a weekend with the family in SATX. However, as one other member posted, "...I wonder why I even own a car"...because as much as I used to enjoy the car, and love driving it when I do...I really, really, really enjoy my pickup!! I love the whistle, I love the power and to a certain extent, I love the cackle...and therein lies the problem, I look for most any reason to drive it. However, I pay for the fuel, and it's up to me to decide when I really shouldn't drive.

Then there are others...like my neighbor. Complaining that his wife is spending $140/week to gas their Yukon...primarily to take their daughter to-from high school. Granted the school is 21mi from our door steps...but the bus that we are already paying for (and the fuel), is only a block away!! However, our children today are so spoiled, that far be it for any child in this "affluent" area to ride the bus...and yet some do. Unless my boys have to be at school prior to when the bus arrives, I tell them they either ride the bus, or ride with a friend...but there's no reason I should pay for twice the transportation (bus and my pickup). My point...I guess we are spoiled...and as one member posted, prices will continue to rise as long as we continue to pay and don't make changes to curb our usage. I wonder if the days of rationing will have to return before the collective masses really begin to curb ourselves.

[jdecker88]

I hauled cattle today with the 97 and found a station that had it for 3.48 near the stock barn. Now thats bad when I see 3.48 and think damn cheap diesel.

[mrxlh]

Originally Posted by just another truck

Sorry Mark, but I believe Bush Jr has a bit to do with the oil prices. Bush Sr at least tapped the reserve and drove the price down the last time we were getting smaked around like this.. And I would think with the way the Economy is dropping to the way side, he would at least do something to lessen the burdon.. my .02

Well we could without really denting the reserve if Albert Gore Jr. under didn't sell Elk Hills Naval Petroleum Reserve to OXY, for a past deed his father was involved in.

[PowerStroker?]

I wonder how much of the military budget ends up just buying fuel. Imagine how many gallons of gasoline they must put through those big turbine engines in an Abrams. They have been constantly trying to go all gas haven't they? I believe that a lot of their big 6x6 trucks are still diesels though.

[Dodger12]

Well, I'm down to 1/4 tank so tomorrow I'll set a new personal record
for the most dollars going in the tank. Still 3.65 as of today.

[mrxlh]

Originally Posted by DR JOE

What kills me about this whole thing is NO ONE (Politician) is stepping up and saying, hey what the hell is going on here??? So if you don't think that big oil business in every politicains pockets... This should be proof... Where is congress and the house on this, most of the time they would be knocking reporters over trying to get on TV about this... Not this time... So someone or something has got them shut up over this deal...

Mark, quick question... Why are some many people spending millions of dollars for a job that pays only $400,000. a year??? it's all about the money....

Quoto from Jerry Mcguire,

Show me the Money...

Doc.

You really didn't think that any of us would actually use bio and E85 if it was a $1 a gallon more than petroleum based fuels did you? This is why you are not hearing anything. The only way to get off foreign oil is to make it too expensive to get. How to do that? Keep adding unrealistic standards on gasoline and diesel that drive up refining costs, don't allow us to drill where the oil is and we have assets in place to utilize it immedatley, don't allow new refinery construction, don't allow nuclear power plants, and don't allow mfg's to reduce emissions by reducing consumption, instead adding crap that makes them get half the fuel mileage they used to with crap we will disable anyway. Granted it only took 30 years for the moons to be in the 7th house and jupiter alinging with mars, but we are here and unless Ron Paul pulls a miracle greater than the 1980 U.S. Hockey team, you will be paying much more than $5 very soon.

[DR JOE]

Originally Posted by mrxlh

You really didn't think that any of us would actually use bio and E85 if it was a $1 a gallon more than petroleum based fuels did you? This is why you are not hearing anything. The only way to get off foreign oil is to make it too expensive to get. How to do that? Keep adding unrealistic standards on gasoline and diesel that drive up refining costs, don't allow us to drill where the oil is and we have assets in place to utilize it immedatley, don't allow new refinery construction, don't allow nuclear power plants, and don't allow mfg's to reduce emissions by reducing consumption, instead adding crap that makes them get half the fuel mileage they used to with crap we will disable anyway. Granted it only took 30 years for the moons to be in the 7th house and jupiter alinging with mars, but we are here and unless Ron Paul pulls a miracle greater than the 1980 U.S. Hockey team, you will be paying much more than $5 very soon.

Ryan,

I agree with part of what you said. Yes the goverment has made some very bad mistakes about some of it policy about gas and diesel fuel. I personaly feel that the EGR valve is the biggest joke ever.

It was stated about 1 year ago that the big oil companies did not want to build a new refinery due to the cost ( could not see being able to recoup there 1 billion dollars, Ya right) and that we might run out of crude( Not for about 50 more years minimum)...
I don't want a nuclear power plant in the USA any where till they can come up with Nuke away to get rid of the nuclear waste.
there are ways to use wind, solar power right now that would easy the need for coal being burn during the day. (Yes it would have to burned at night to keep the lights on).

There are so many things that could be done, but won't be done due to MONEY and the fact that some people are going to lose some money in the new game of finding better ways to live.

I don't want to see anyone lose there jobs or livelihood, but that's what job re-training is all about. Yes some people jobs will be lost due to doing thing different, but no one wants to talk about that in anyway shape or form. But some where down the pipe, it's going to happen. Look at what greed has done to the American work force, master locks are all built in China along with some many other things. It's all about the money... Always will be and never change.

And yes, Ron Paul would have turned the goverment on it's ear. But most, if not all politicians don't want that to happen... They like there Pork barrels full of useless crap...

Doc.

[mrxlh]

You have no idea how badly the companies want new refineries built. Heck in AZ, they have been working on the permitting process for one for better than 20 years. Every dollar ever spent since last diesel standards were set (500 ppm sulfur, plus the vast LSM projects for gasoline as well as the mtbe thing and oxygenated fuels too) til today would have built around 6-7 new refineries at a capacity rate of around 600,000 bbls per day throughput. With less personel and tons less maintenance costs, energy effeincy, and the list goes on and on. Remember 1976 was when the last new refinery was built in the states, how many proverbally "do overs" would the refiners wished they could do with the rules and standards as they are now.

[DR JOE]

I remember seeing the guy on TV about a year or two ago, that he finaly got the go ahead to build it. And yes your right it should have not taken 20 years for the plant to get the permits to build. But here in Wichita and the surrounding area we have lost 4 refines that have just up and closed for what ever the reason. So why close a plant knowing that you can't open another one???

Like I said the system is flawed in a big way, but how to you get the EPA and big business on board and working together to move forward??? The industrail age has ahd a huge inpact on the planet, and yes we do have to take care of it. But there has to be a balance between what we want and what the earth need to survive. I am not a tree hugging don't do this or that person. But I do feel that we have a responsabilty to leave this place better than we found it. That's why I am so big on the solar and wind power plants...

Ok so how do we solve this problem??? Everyone can complain, I'm willing to help fix it...

Doc.

[phatdually1]

Paid 3.89 in San Diego today, and that's self serve.

[mrxlh]

Joe, money like anything else, the cost of new upgrades to remain compliant were probably more than the refinery could recoup in 3 years time, without realizing an actual return on the investment. Labor costs, insurance costs, materials costs. Heck Kinder Morgan bought a steel mill that made pipe, just so they could be sure they would be able to get it in time for a new interstate gas pipeline project under FERC's deadlines. They were all small refineries, by small I mean less than 100,000bbls per day of throughput.

How is the tricky question, as the delicate balance among all sides is just about impossible for everyone to give just a little. As bad as everyone hates ExxonMobil, ConocoPhillips, and Chevron, with a little guidance and more help (yep government helping big oil) could bring opec to their knees in less than a year. Drill anwr, both coasts and off of Florida in the Gulf. Speedway 10 new refineries, with a criteria of 600,000 bbls per day design capacity, and locate them accrodingly to where they need to be built. (ala, not all in one place, and not where weather can cause major disruptions) Agree on one standard for gasoline, like diesel, and not the 20 different configurations for all the different metropolitan areas. Emissions reductions that actually make sense. (hey how about a diesel that gets 25 mpg city, therefore using less fuel, therefore emitting less pollutants) Real encouragement of energy effeincy, as in car pooling and easy things we can do now (high speed rain is another) All of these will result in a boost in the economy as just the construction alone would employ more than are willing to work, with really good paying jobs. All of this is just to fix what we have now, then you have to work on the alternative fuel sources, and really work on them, not the half hearted attempts made in recent years with E85 and Bio.

[Tenn01PSD350]

Originally Posted by DR JOE

Ok so how do we solve this problem??? Everyone can complain, I'm willing to help fix it...

Doc.

We need to build more nuke plants. Period. Don't kid yourself, this planet survives by virtue of the thermonuclear power of the sun. It is clean energy, but has hazardous waste. We need to get better about that. Right now we power our grids primarily via coal, our biggest resource.

What does this have to do with diesel? Nothing. What can be done about the price of diesel? A lot. Get that stupid EPA to back off so development can occur. If we don't exploit it, the Chinese and whoever else will. That kind of environmental responsibility does not make me feel good. I guess we will all stand by while China goes through it's industrial revolution and becomes a serious powerhouse, all the while sending our $$s there.

I used the word exploit because that is what it is. A finite resource that when used is gone. So should we let others do it while we maintain the moral high ground?

I'll stop ranting because I could go on. Bottom line, supply and demand. We do not have a good handle on the supply side. It's just that simple. Until we get a better control of crude supply, our demand will hold us hostage.

Final thought. When I bought my truck about 7 years ago, diesel was less than a dollar a gallon. What else has gone up that much? Almost 4x and rising.

[DR JOE]

I like a man with a plan... Now that's what I am talking about... I agree with you 100%...

Mark for Prez... Sounds good to me... When to we start???


Mike,

For the cost of one Nuke plant we could build a couple of wind and solar farms, that would do more than the nuker plant by it self... Either the goverment or big business or both do not want this to happen. I just dont know why???

Doc.