[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 25-Jul-01 AT 09:56 PM (EST)[/font][p]Haven't been able to crank the newly rebuilt 460. The motor spins and I'm getting a yellow spark-um to the plugs, but won't crank - occassionally backfiring through the exhaust....

1) Are 460 vaccum advances "generally" pointing towards the front of the engine, or does it really matter?....

2) I have the cam and crank gear with the marks pointing DIRECTLY at each other, as all the manuals say to do with new chain and Lunati camshaft / lifters / pushrods. I have used the "finger in the hole" method and brought # 1 up to TDC on the balancer and aimed the rotor at the number one plug - no crank. This IS the right method, right?

3) I have pulled the distributor back OUT many time at the same location and dropped it back in at # 6 (hoping it was 180 degrees out - an old GM trick) and that doesn't help.

4) Rocker arms - this is a hydraulic lifter motor - no adjustments needed for the new lifters, right?....just tighten the arms down tight and let rip, right....fluid taking up and making up any slack in the valvetrain...?


Any more ideas, guys?.....my girl-friend is getting REALLY PISSED she can't drive my car (as this truck is down) and is having to walk to work..

 

[font size="1" color="#FF0000"]LAST EDITED ON 26-Jul-01 AT 01:21 AM (EST)[/font][p]Y'all need to stop using the word "crank" the wrong way! Cranking an engine means running the starter. Starter, crank handle out the front, cranking, crank, get it?

The advance points roughly to the front, so at TDC on comp. stroke on #1, the rotor should be pointing towards the back, at the number 1 plug wire.
460's are hydraulic lifter engines, the lifter takes up the slack within reason. Before you put the lifters in, hopefully you pumped them up full of oil, a pump oiler into the oil hole on the side of each lifter is an easy quick way.
Your yellow spark doesn't sound right. Should be white or blue. Do you have the coil polarized right?
And the air was going strongly OUT when you were setting it up at TDC right? Not 1 turn off on the crankshaft.

 

Torky -
Thanks for a reply. All the manuals I've scoured through always state to make some sort of marks on the balancer and rotate the engine a certain amount, adjusting so-n-so valves.....cross your eyes and tap your heels together then rotate another 27.937 degrees and adjust number so-n-so.....

I never thought it should be that complicated.....set it and forget it; that's the way hydraulic lifters have been in the last several hundred Pontiac engines I've rebuilt - even the GTO Judge Ram Air IV ...set it and forget it. A few big block 454's with solid lifter cams, I've built - that's another matter. Yup I pre-oiled the lifters.....

I didn't really think it would make a difference as far as where the vaccuum advance was pointing.....but I'll go back and set it like my Lincoln Continental out back....towards the front.

Yes, strong air is flowing ~out~ of the #1 cylinder at TDC - rotate the balancer another turn BACK to TDC and there is nothing coming out - this tells me it's not the compression stroke and the rotor should NOT be pointing at #1.

H'mmmm ----- white or blue spark, eh?.....That's what I thought...in fact I thought you should be able to ~hear~ a sharp snap as it arcs across the plug gap. I'll check into that further....the engine that came OUT of this beast was a six cylinder and it was running (just used 6 quarts of oil a day) - you think I could temporarily use ~its~ coil to test for a bad coil?

Thanks,
LaptopGeek

 

So, when you turn the key, the starter spins the motor, right?
Backfiring through the exhaust indicates either wrong firing order or retarded timing.
Basic engine timing:
1. Crank engine to #1 cyl TDC on the COMPRESSION stroke.. finger in the hole trick or otherwise.
2. Drop in distributor so it falls all the way into place.. IT DOES NOT MATTER which direction the vac. advance points, as long as there is room to turn the dist either way to adjust timing.
3. Wherever the rotor is pointing on the cap, put #1 wire there. wiring order goes COUNTERCLOCKWISE 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8, Be sure it's Counterclockwise.
4. Wire from the Distributor goes to the - side of the coil. Wire from the ignition goes to the + side of the coil. I know it sounds silly, but it is one thing that is often overlooked.
5. Get a remote starter or someone to turn the key for you. While the engine is cranking, nudge the distributor back and forth until the engine starts. If it backfires thru the Carb, your wiring is off. If it backfires thru the exhaust, your timing is too retarded. CounterClockwise on the distributor is retarding it, Clockwise is advancing it.

YES, the coil off the 6Cyl should work Fine on the 460, at least temporarily. There should be a hot white or blue spark, and YES, you should be able to hear it **SNAPP** when it fires.. My personal favorite is when you short out the wire to your finger...if your hand doesnt convulse violently, something is wrong... Orrrrrr, you could use the spark plug instead.
Best of luck to ya... I want this thing to run!

J/.c

1965 Ford Galaxie 500 (okay, so not quite a truck)
460/C6 transplant @ 389hp/491 lb.ft.
14.29@103.8, 13-14 mpg heheheheheh

 

ProudOwner;

Thanks for the response - indeed, there is no problem spinning the engine. I've worked for weeks now trying to get this started - it's ridiculous. Tonight I need to verify the crank and cam gears are lined up properly - crank gear mark should be straight up and cam gear should be straight DOWN looking at the crank mark and not a tooth off (Cloyes roller timing set)? At this point, on the compression stroke, the distributor needs to be firing #1 cylinder. I have to check this, as this is taking WAY too long....I'll note your checks above though.....this is going to be a kick-##### '74 F100 sleeper when I get him running. Thanks for hanging in there with me...

The LaptopGeek -----
1974 White F100 Custom Fleetside
460 bored .040 over & C-6 automatic 2WD
Lunati cam, L&L Headers / mounts
Holley Avenger 770CFM & Edlebrock RPM
Plush black leather 40-20-40 bench seat
38 gallon JC Whitney fuel tank

 

Well, you should be able to tell if the cam is mistimed by listening to air leaking out carb or exhaust CONSISTENTLY... but if all else fails, then yea, pull the cover and double check. The gear on the cam should have the dot Down, the gear on the crank should have the dot UP.. YES, they should be perfectly aligned, it's amazing how big a difference just one tooth off will make...namely, it wont start.
Double check the ignition first, it really doesnt take that much time to re-set your distributor in the engine..
Another thing to question, your damper (that has the timing marks on it) may have spun on the rubber.. is it new, or is it used? If the timing marks have spun, then your timing could be wayyyyyyyy off from what it's showing.. This is probably not the case, but it has happened before. If you are questioning the damper, make SURE the #1 is at TDC by pulling a plug and looking. You should be able to see the piston at the top of the cyl...
Just some more Ideas... good luck!

J/.c

1965 Ford Galaxie 500 (okay, so not quite a truck)
460/C6 transplant @ 389hp/491 lb.ft.
14.29@103.8, 13-14 mpg heheheheheh

 

10-4, ProudOwner...

Thanks for the continued feedback. That's what I'm afraid of - I've heard enough engines spin over to tell a sick one when I hear it...I can hear this one wheezing through the headers; that's why as much as I hate to, I need to pull that silly timing cover....I don't believe I would have a bent valce, as a bent VALVE would have showed up under the compression check for it not closing all the way; thus not sealing properly.

The few times he has sputtered sounds great through the Thrush straight-through glass-pax...this thing is going to shake everybodies fillings out when I get him running....

The dampner looks okay - I examined it during rebuild and have already checked to make sure # 1 is at TDC - both visually and manually with a screw-stick in the hole. BTW, this week-end I pulled all the pushrods after the compression check - and two were bent. I replaced them, but it sure beats me as to why a NEW engine is going to bend 2 pushrods...

The LaptopGeek -----
1974 White F100 Custom Fleetside
460 bored .040 over & C-6 automatic 2WD
Lunati cam, L&L Headers / mounts
Holley Avenger 770CFM & Edlebrock RPM
Plush black leather 40-20-40 bench seat
38 gallon JC Whitney fuel tank