I remember a business report about toyota a few years ago when the matrix was still a fresh idea and selling like hot cakes. They were talking about how toyota was able to pull an above average profit per car (in the $600 range) and part of the reason was that toyota's workforce is not unionized, as far as I know, this is still the case.
David, I remember reading an article somewhere myself about a new (B) car called a "verve" or something like that. It was given the go to build by the big dogs and after a long long time negotiating with the UAW Ford mgt told the UAW that they needed price concessions in order to be able to build the car and sell it for a profit. The negotiations went nowhere fast and Ford mgt said fine. We will build it anyway and we will build it out of the country. I have a feeling this has happened before.
Its no secret that the UAW and CAW never got along well with the big automakers, its an ongoing struggle between the two, and already canadian autoworkers are loosing their jobs faster than ever before, its only a matter of time before this trend spreads to the USA. Even more, now that the "R" word is being thrown around.
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1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
i won't expand on the factory conditions, that's just something i watched on t.v, which i don't trust tv show directors anyway because i know they're about image and ratings. i have friends who work in the factory and they're doing quite well. i won't doubt that working in the factory isn't roses. but you will NEVER convince me that modern pickup gas mileage is as good as it could be. you're sure letting'm fool you if you think 18mpg is good. this day and age you think they can't do better? you CAN'T be that dumb. just proud. you also think the oil companies don't have anything to do with rated mpg? you can bet your gas money it's all figured out in an office long before you realize. but, you don't wanna hear it anyway. just keep sending kids to iraq to fight for it. it creates lots of jobs. we should be fighting to bring back the e.v ranger. look it up on utube, you'll see it works better than you'd think. don't get angry w/me because i know enough to cut thru it all. i'm just trying to point us in a better direction. there are times when you just gotta put your pride on the shelf and think things thru. i know you hate me now. but if things went my way we'd all be better off except for the greedy corporations that'l never hand the power back to us blue collars that worked for it. and yes, i think henry was for the people. in those days he could afford to be more honest. if he where still alive today i don't know how he would do against all these politicians and lawyers
.....we should be fighting to bring back the e.v ranger.....
Thats the first time I've seen some one other than myself bring it up (EV nut here ). You might want to save this website, it gets updade often, and guess what, they have an EV ranger! They claim it can do 400 miles, but thats for the high end system.
numberdummy knows what he is talking about. they do not make em like they used to. FACT. you all enjoy your new plastic and making payments on something that will be in the scrapyard 10 years from now.
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usn gwot veteran cvn72 03-08
69 F100 360 C6 highway rear end/3.2something
carb,intake,headers,ignition,a/c,timingchain&gears
15mpg hwy
how in the world did i become an "elder user"?
thanks david85, i really liked that site i saved it. i can see a ranger like that going over well out on the island. if i move to vancouver some day i'd like to pull the old i6 out of my 56 f100 and convert it to ev instread of a v8 believe it or not. it'd be perfect for my uses there. exc stuff
David, I remember reading an article somewhere myself about a new (B) car called a "verve" or something like that. It was given the go to build by the big dogs and after a long long time negotiating with the UAW Ford mgt told the UAW that they needed price concessions in order to be able to build the car and sell it for a profit. The negotiations went nowhere fast and Ford mgt said fine. We will build it anyway and we will build it out of the country. I have a feeling this has happened before.
Not only has it happened before. But it's happening again.
Ford is shutting down the Twin Cities plant that builds the Ranger. The last I heard the Ranger is going to be built in S. America?
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93 F One Fiddy- 5.0/AOD/3.55 230K OEM
93 F Two Fiddy Scab- 7.3/ZF5/3.55/Sidewinder II,94 Turbo pump,G Inj's, Velvet Ride, Ride Rite Rear, Turbo Bumper, Alcoa's
85 F Two Fiddy-6.9/C6/3.54/ Holley Red, Racor, Soup Bowl,AutoJet 3",Ride Rite Rear
They'll be killing the ranger alltogether, so I guess it really doesn't matter all that much, too bad, it was the last of the compact pickups. I was also hoping that LionEV might be able to put out a good number of their electric ranger conversions, but that may not happen if there are no rangers to convert.
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1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
the actual toyota factory might, but my mom works there and dont get paid much at all. plus they only assymble the cars there, what about all the japanese owned companies here that are making parts for them, i know cause i have seen it and worked it for a day. not cool at all, they work you like a slave, in the heat, for only $11.00 and hour, these days that peanuts. then dont let me add in how bad they treat their workers, i dont know if i still have the article but they had the kentucky state workers rights in there on them and then they were talking about how one of the stupid goveners of the state gave toyota all the land the place is built on and then gave them MAJOR tax breaks and they are not putting any money back in the community as they promised. and oh yes there is always the, i believe it was a nissan plat in arkansas that had one of the japanese or chinese managers of the plant going down the like hitting workers on the back and yelling at them "worky, worky, worky". if you need me to i can list some of the things that are going wrong in the toyota plant.
Well as for the tax breaks, you are right. Its not right that anyone gets them, including the many other companies that get them such as walmart.
Again I am not trying to start a fight but what job was being done for 11$ an hour? I have seen the numbers toyota pays its workers and they seem to be generaly fair. Far less than what the UAW does but still very fair. Keep in mind these are unskilled workers.
You won't get much sympathy from me for the heat in those plants. I worked along side those UAW workers in that heat in the humid eastern US summer. I had to maintain the engineers dress code of dress shirt and pants. By the way, I was making the same or less money than most of those workers after completing a bachelor of science degree in engineering. Just something to think about.
Part of the problem is, in my opinion that everyone is used to the wages and conditions that the UAW provides. While the UAW has done great things in the past, it is becoming greedy. For many of the jobs 11$ is a fair wage IMO. Other jobs I think 30 or 40$ an hour is fair. If 11$ an hour was unfair, then I doubt they could have found anyone willing to work there. I believe wal-mart employees make that so if it was truly a underpaid job, wal-mart is almost always hiring.
I met many workers that took great pride in the job they did and made a good reason for the wages the UAW demands. I met many that were there simply to take advantage of a good thing an example I often saw was people sleeping. So yes if you need me to I can list some things that were going on in UAW plant.
i won't expand on the factory conditions, that's just something i watched on t.v, which i don't trust tv show directors anyway because i know they're about image and ratings. i have friends who work in the factory and they're doing quite well. i won't doubt that working in the factory isn't roses. but you will NEVER convince me that modern pickup gas mileage is as good as it could be. you're sure letting'm fool you if you think 18mpg is good. this day and age you think they can't do better? you CAN'T be that dumb. just proud. you also think the oil companies don't have anything to do with rated mpg? you can bet your gas money it's all figured out in an office long before you realize. but, you don't wanna hear it anyway. just keep sending kids to iraq to fight for it. it creates lots of jobs. we should be fighting to bring back the e.v ranger. look it up on utube, you'll see it works better than you'd think. don't get angry w/me because i know enough to cut thru it all. i'm just trying to point us in a better direction. there are times when you just gotta put your pride on the shelf and think things thru. i know you hate me now. but if things went my way we'd all be better off except for the greedy corporations that'l never hand the power back to us blue collars that worked for it. and yes, i think henry was for the people. in those days he could afford to be more honest. if he where still alive today i don't know how he would do against all these politicians and lawyers
Prove to me that the oil companies are involved in MPG ratings. Think it through. If Ford said, screw the oil companies, and made a truck that got 30mpg. NOBODY would buy another brand of truck. Ford would quickly put every automaker out of business. Also there are independent companies reasearching this. Did the Oil cos get the to them. Did the Oil companies get to every foreign company too? Think it through, there is no way its possible. These rumors have been around for years and there is nothing true about them.
Now maybe gas prices are "fixed" but I have no way of knowing that.
While it may be difficult to prove a conspiracy, there is without a doubt, a symbiosis between the auto industry and the oil industry. If it wasn't for companies like ford, toyota, and GMC, there would not be a place for mega oil companies like exxon, or chevron/texaco. Likewise, with todays technology, if oil companies were not able to turn a profit, there would be not fuel to run the cars that are built in detroit.
However, there have been literally dozens of studies just in canada (don't know about the USA) to see if consumers are being fleeced, and each and every time, they could prove nothing. Its my opinion that the price of oil has a lot more to do with the people who who buy it than the people who sell it. As cruel and impossible as this sounds, if you want cheaper gas, than stop buying it, and the price will go down, oil has already lost 10% since last year, and will probably continue to fall. Thats how it is in a free market.
Making an F150 that gets 30MPG is possible, and anyone who wants to could pull it off, the catch is, you can't do it with a piston engine because its so inefficient by nature (and no, the 100MPG carb is not the fix). Electric cars can get the cost equivalent of 300MPG on electricity, large trucks could approach 100, and strangely enough, well insulated steam and sterling engines (which predate the piston engine) are among the most efficient alternatives to piston engines, if you still have to burn fuel. This would also cause an arms race among carmakers, and there are rarely any winners when that happens. But how many would really buy a truck that doesn't have the normal V8 rumble or the smell of gas?
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1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
While it may be difficult to prove a conspiracy, there is without a doubt, a symbiosis between the auto industry and the oil industry. If it wasn't for companies like ford, toyota, and GMC, there would not be a place for mega oil companies like exxon, or chevron/texaco. Likewise, with todays technology, if oil companies were not able to turn a profit, there would be not fuel to run the cars that are built in detroit.
However, there have been literally dozens of studies just in canada (don't know about the USA) to see if consumers are being fleeced, and each and every time, they could prove nothing. Its my opinion that the price of oil has a lot more to do with the people who who buy it than the people who sell it. As cruel and impossible as this sounds, if you want cheaper gas, than stop buying it, and the price will go down, oil has already lost 10% since last year, and will probably continue to fall. Thats how it is in a free market.
Making an F150 that gets 30MPG is possible, and anyone who wants to could pull it off, the catch is, you can't do it with a piston engine because its so inefficient by nature (and no, the 100MPG carb is not the fix). Electric cars can get the cost equivalent of 300MPG on electricity, large trucks could approach 100, and strangely enough, well insulated steam and sterling engines (which predate the piston engine) are among the most efficient alternatives to piston engines, if you still have to burn fuel. This would also cause an arms race among carmakers, and there are rarely any winners when that happens. But how many would really buy a truck that doesn't have the normal V8 rumble or the smell of gas?
All good points. I was simply staying that if there was a technology that allowed us to build a truck that people wanted that got 30mpg the oil companies have not "covered up" this fact. In fact there is a BP logo on my 2006 f150's gas cap. I am simply saying the stories of someone inventing a better carb or better piston engine that gets 90mpg only to have the oil companies buy it and hide it is false.
Your last paragraph is exactly correct. As I've said before GENERALLY, ford and the others have given us consumers what we demand with our dollars. That has been bigger, faster, safer vehicles. I remember reading that even the number of cupholders rank higher than MPG in consumers minds according a recent study. I believe this might change, but it won't overnight.
As for oil price fixing I agree that it is mostly higher from demand. But there is some big profits in there. Look at the profits each oil co has posted each year. Its not held artificially high though. Buy less and it will drop.
Your last paragraph is exactly correct. As I've said before GENERALLY, ford and the others have given us consumers what we demand with our dollars. That has been bigger, faster, safer vehicles. I remember reading that even the number of cupholders rank higher than MPG in consumers minds according a recent study. I believe this might change, but it won't overnight.
Yep. But Ford is also VERY skilled at the marketing game. The poll that another member set up to ask the question of a manual transmission is a good example. LOL about the cupholders though.
Overall, there is still a preference among many for a manual transmission, but what people will settle, for is more important than what they would "like" to have. In reality, ford makes better profit off of auto trannies, and the EPA is more comfortable with autos, so ford stopped offering stick shift altogether, and will probably loose very little sales, in any over the change on policy.
What people want plays a huge role in marketing, but its interesting to see what they are willing to put up with, and in some cases give up to get it. Sounds a lot like gas prices, doesn't it?
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1986 F250HD Ex cab Fresh built up 6.9L diesel Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
1986 F150 Ex cab Lariat rollercam 5.0L on LPG AOD trans 3.55 gears 390 000Ks
Well the study i read was independent but you are right. Its a balance between what they want, and what they will tolerate.
I think the manual transmission is mostly for EPA and simplicity. But the fact that everyone is "Ok" with it also plays a big part in everything.
To rephrase my last post. Everyone was concerned about many other things, power, safety, towing capacity, comfort and pretty much everyone would tolerate the poor MPG. It has always been like that. Just with the sudden surge in gas prices they are finally getting burned while everyone raises the complaint. Drop gas back to 2.00 or so and I bet many of the voices complaining would go back to tolerating happily again.
I think if American people would be a little more willing to work for a fair price and not Union B.S. way over paid wages with rediculous health care benifits, then we would all be better off. I work for $11 bucks an hour I make electric motors, and although I wish I got paid 15 bucks an hour, I feel I get paid fairly for the job I do(wish I had better insurance though), and I feel I can out work anybody from any country, and have a higher quality product to boot.
Americans work as hard or harder than anybody on the planet, and I should not have to feel a threat from the 3 or 4 Mexican workers it would take to replace me. No American should.
Yeah trucks should be able to get 20MPG all day long with the trottle down. I think the reason the economy sucks right now is everybody has to budget their money for gas, if gas was $2.00 a gallon I would be pretty happy that would be good, but I'd rather see it at $1.50, I think thats a fair price, hell the oil companies make money no matter what, they got us by the balls, and thats why they get away with it.
Maybe if we just all worked our butts off for a week or two stocked up on groceries, and then had a national shut down week, where everybody but emergency workers just stayed home for a week, with the intent to force oil companies to lower prices. Just to show them what happens when we don't buy their stuff, maybe they would appreciate us a little more, and lower prices. It would be nice if all the companies that could switch to four ten hour days or even three twelve hour days, actually would.
I worked at Wal-Mart 2 years ago they only paid me $7.25 and hour and I was in the Tire Lube Express which was the highest paid labor job available. They are pathetic one of the richest companies in America and they only pay minimum wage, they could at least pay 8 or 9 buck an hour.
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Lariat AC leather seats power everything w/full cluster, sterling rear 3.08LS gears, E4OD trans, ram intake ATS 088 turbo
). You might want to save this website, it gets updade often, and guess what, they have an EV ranger! They claim it can do 400 miles, but thats for the high end system.
