Future of Ford

[dascro]

Fonefiddy. I agree about the MPG for the chevy. I think cylinder deactiviation is a not worth anything in the real world. They seem to be getting similar mileage to the 5.4

BUT, the yukon or tahoe or whatever with the 6.0 hybrid is getting 20mpg city 20mpg highway. I think thats the first real attempt to increase MPG and its decent in my opinion.

[KitsKid]

Well, I just got to say and this is from experience, I have a 1995 F-150 with a 300 I 6 in it with a 5 speed manual transmission. I have 220,000 miles on it. I pulled my 32' Travel Trailer out of Houston with it at 12:00 noon on I10 trying to get to I45. Now if you know Houston and you know I10 then you realize how stupid that stunt was. Before I get the third degree about a F-150 wasn't made to pull a 32' Travel trailer and how unsafe that was, I know *** that boys and girls, but it was the only vehicle I had at the time and it had to be done. Now that truck did the job. It was a vertual nightmare shifting gears in I10 traffic.
I have a F-250 PSD crewcab Superduty that does the job the way it is supposed to be done. You can say *** you want too about the past vs the present. But this old Fatboy don't wanta go back. If I do go back it will just be refurbishing older cars and trucks to play with and for my grandsons to play with.

And that folks is my opinion on this thread topic. Didn't cost you a single dime.

[David85]

I'm not saying that the variable displacement will make a big difference, and personally I think its a waste of time, but at least GM is aiming for higher fuel economy. As for the allison electric transmission, the basic design has been deployed in transit busses for a while now, with very good results, for stop and go traffic, there is a real world improvement.

Overall I am still not happy with the concept of parallel hybrids either (would prefer EMD or series hybrid powertrain), but even I have to admit that they do offer an improvement over the run of the mill auto tranny.

I also realize that a brand new top notch F350, 450, or even 550 will out pull anything that came before it, but really, who needs to pull 30 000lbs every day???? Both my trucks work for a living, and neither of them ever see those kinds of loads. So why not just buy a peterbuilt?

Think back to around 1972, remember how big all the cars were back then? For some strange reason, pickup trucks were immune to the effects of the fuel crisis, and continued to get bigger and bigger, time will tell how far this trend can go before regulators step in, or fuel prices simply make these trucks unaffordable alltogether.

[Fosters]

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

The newer trucks are made with ONE THING in mind: PLANNED OBSOLESCENCE.

Yep, it's a big conspiracy. everyone is out to get YOU.

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

Gone are the days when simple repairs took minutes, and back then, there were no such thing as pulling codes...what a freakin' joke. The average Joe can no longer fix his vehicle.

the average Joe nowadays needs to get a scanner, or an autotap, same as back in the day you needed a screwdriver and a timing light.

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

A 5.4 is more powerful engine than a 390, a 460, or even a 352?

Yeah right...it can barely out pull a 302.

have you owned both of em? I had an 87 302 C6 2wd and 2x 04 5.4 4R75E, and I can tell you, it's no contest; my current truck with 35" tires is faster, tows more and hauls more than the 87.

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

And...all the newer piles have paper thin sheet metal, plastic everywhere, computers, calibration codes, thin uncomfortable seats, crappy brakes.

You complain about the sheet metal being thin, plastic everywhere and thin seats, yet you want it to lose weight? buy a ranger and quit whining.

crappy brakes? that's why we can't fit any wheels smaller than 17"s on em... try some of the earlier trucks, see how the braking is. I could have probably stuck my foot out the door and fred flinstone'd my 87 to a stop faster.

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

The build quality is better?

it is. it's just that the new ones have a bazillion more features that can go wrong. as a percentage of things that can go wrong vs what actually does go wrong, again, there's no contest. the 4.6s will run forever if properly maintained. that tranny behind them is as durable as the mighty C6, plus it doesn't turn 3500 rpm on the highway.

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

Take another look: Compare your '95 with your '07: The current piles have: horrible paint quality that's rife with orange peel, misaligned plastic parts held together with plastic clips, paper thin aluminum trim that tweaks when you put your fingers on it.

It doesn't take long for all that plastic crappola to start a squeekin' and a rattlin.'

Stronger frames? Ford used C channel for 90 years, and still use it on Super Duty's, and most of the other vehicles. The current F150's have fully boxed frames...all that did was add weight...lots of it.

in the case of an accident, mass wins. the current trucks a helluva lot safer than the old ones. in the case of towing, mass wins. if not, try towing with a V8 swapped ranger. tell me how that goes.

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

...and as far as tougher axles...and better transmissions go...

THE BEST REAR AXLE EVER: FORD 9 INCH

THE BEST AUTO TRANSMISSION EVER: FORD C6.

Both were expensive to make, so they were replaced by what you call tougher ones. Uh huh.

Not ONE automatic since the demise of the C6 has been worth a damn...

the 4R70W in mustangs has held up to quite a bit of abuse; people push upwards of 500+ tq through the stock trannys on slicks, without thinking twice about it. Our trannys are a beefed up version of that. Yes, they shift slower than old people sex because the masses want comfort, but they can be easily (with a computer, don't even have to get dirty) made to shift a lot better.

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

Have an AOD?

Better STAY OUT of OD in heavy stop 'n go traffic, otherwise the little charmer will fry its guts. It doesn't take too long for this to occur, either.

The A4LD was so bad, that dealers ordered Ranger and Bronco II's with 5 speeds.

The 8.8 is a poor (and that's being kind) substitute for the 9 inch.

Too bad those 80s trucks mostly used an 8.8 (mine did) and the newer ones use 9.75 or the optional 10.25...

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

Gas mileage...despite all the so called improvements, the gas mileage is no better on these new plastic throwaway piles than it was 20, 30, 40 or even 50 years ago.

again, you complain about the truck being made of too thin sheetmetal, seats not fluffly enough, and too much plastic, yet the gas mileage is still bad? guess what; it has to be; it can't put out lumps of smoke the size of barns anymore, thanks to your local treehugging al gore humping hippy; and it has to be safe enough to survive head on collisions with semis, trains and eventually superman...

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

Want a rude awakening? Spend some time BEHIND the scene.

sounds like you need to spend some money on a newer truck and experience this awakening by yourself. Not just read it on the internet and cry about the pushrods being extinct.

Originally Posted by NumberDummy

You'll soon discover what the reliability factors are, of all these so called
improvements.

there's a thread on here with how many miles a 4.6 can last... i'd suggest reading it... should put into perspective the whole reliability factor.

[Ryan50hrl]

Very well said.....

[Fosters]

Originally Posted by David85

I also realize that a brand new top notch F350, 450, or even 550 will out pull anything that came before it, but really, who needs to pull 30 000lbs every day???? Both my trucks work for a living, and neither of them ever see those kinds of loads. So why not just buy a peterbuilt?

It's not the fact that you need it to tow 30,000 lbs every day, it's the fact that when you do need it to tow that much - being a fully filled 40ft camper or that ridiculous boat us americans all dream about - and you have all your family and gear with you, you don't want to be the guy going 30mph under the speed limit in 4wd lo to get up a hill; just so you can get 28 mpg when you're driving to work in the same truck.

[rollerstud98]

Oh man fosters, that slower then old people sex comment sure made me laugh!!!

[David85]

Originally Posted by rollerstud98

Oh man fosters, that slower then old people sex comment sure made me laugh!!!

Although thats an image I could have done without, I have to say that did crack me up! I happen to like a firm shift.



I don't know Fosters, I might but a new F150 if it could get 28MPG consistently. Ford has been in the auto biz for 100 years now, is 16 MPG really the best they can do??????

I have to say though, I do agree with NumberDummy about planned obsolesce. To go back to my earlier comment, is this the best ford can do for life expectancy? After 100 years, our trucks are still rusting away? As a metal fabricator, I can tell you that stainless steel is not much more expencive than carbon steel and it also happens to be stronger than mild steel (better wield strength too). There would also be some cost savings in not having to rust proof the vehicle at the factory.

If you think about it, cars and trucks are the ultimate use and throw way product.

[Ryan50hrl]

But stainless steel is harder to work with....i don't want to pay for that extra cost when i LIKE to buy a new truck every few years....plus....engines and transmissions still wear out....and i don't think trucks rust out like they used to....my 95 was rusting at all the wheel wells....i don't see any newer vehicles rusting like that....

[David85]

Originally Posted by Ryan50hrl

But stainless steel is harder to work with....i don't want to pay for that extra cost when i LIKE to buy a new truck every few years....plus....engines and transmissions still wear out....and i don't think trucks rust out like they used to....my 95 was rusting at all the wheel wells....i don't see any newer vehicles rusting like that....

You don't see new vehicles rusting out like that because they're still new. Your truck will have plenty of rust on it by the time its 10 years old, but most of it will be hidden.

SS comes in many grades, just like carbon steel. It can be just as easy to form, but its stronger and lighter than mild steel. Not only making the truck last longer, but safer in a collision. Bumpers can be raw instead of chrome plated, so they look the same but never fade.

[LxMan1]

Originally Posted by fonefiddy

It's true, that we as consumers control most of the market.

But it's a catch 22. Say Joe blow is working at a plant. The plant closes, outsourcing his job to (insert name of foriegn country w/sweat shop here). He sits on unemployment barely scraping by. And is forced to stretch every penny. There-by supporting the visious cycle, by buying these cheap imports that forced him out of his job. Then when he does get a job, he makes 30% less income. Perpetuating it further. Forcing him to keep buying products produced in sweat shops, with child/forced/prison labor.

American consumers refuse to get their heads out of their a$$'s. We need to wake up and see what our buying practices are doing to our country/economy.

If you remember the "Buy USA, Your job depends on it" campaign that occured back in the 70's-80's. They warned of this very situation. Peeps refused to believe. And here we sit, complaining that everything is made in China!

I'd urge peeps to type Made in USA into google, and try to support the products made by Americans.

Then, get consumer concious. At least, try to comsume products that are labor freindly

http://www.nlcnet.org/

I've been saying the same thing for years.
We outsource all of the jobs to China or wherever, then there are no jobs left here for anyone to earn any money to buy anything in the first place.

It's just like all of these organizations that want you to spend X amount of dollars a month to help feed a child 1/2 a world away. Well for one, your right there with the kid, you feed it!!!! And for 2, there are way too many needy children right here in the US that need fed too.
We need to look out for and care for #1 before worrying about every one else!!!!!

[dascro]

Lxman, It would be great to look out for number 1 and forget about everyone else, but you forgetting how interconnect we all are. If we did that then I am sure every other country would start doing that. We would have no imports of oil, minerals and other things we take for granted.
If you mean that would should stop getting involved in other peoples problems and wars, well then you are 100% correct!!! I wish people in our goverment thought as you did.

David85:
I really appreciate your posts above, it was one of the few that actually made me think. I tend to keep a vehicle until it is about 15 years old. But I agree that after about 10 then start to fall apart, rusting underneath etc.

Why is that acceptable to us. I bought a expensive rifle a few weeks ago, I would not buy that if it was known that after about 10 years it will start to fall apart and it was only around 1000$. I expect to pass it on to my children or grandchildren many years from now. Why is this different with a 30k+ vehicle??

I take great care of the vehicles I've owned and they look great even when then get above 10yrs old, but they do have hidden problems. Why should I work hard to maintain something that costs me a large percentage of my yearly salary only to have it decay. My refridgerator is from the 60's. I do not spend a few hours a month maintaining it, the previous own did not either I am guessing. Yet it still does its job very well.


Very interesting thoughts...

[Ryan50hrl]

Originally Posted by dascro

My refridgerator is from the 60's. I do not spend a few hours a month maintaining it, the previous own did not either I am guessing. Yet it still does its job very well.


Very interesting thoughts...

Do you know how much that thing is costing you in energy?

[dascro]

Yeah for sure. My electric bill is about 80 a month for two people in a small place. Of course since I'm a renter its not up to me. I just suffer through it. I'll be getting my own place soon.

[1991F150lvr]

well thats just the way these new trucks are. someone in 1991 could have said my 91 was a piece compared to a 78 or said that the 91 is better than the 78. thats just the way it is. i just believe that trucks are too entirely technologicall advanced. what happened to just a plain basic truck. half tons today are just beefy luxo cruisers. and the reason people like new trucks is because its just easier. everything is new, nothing to worry about, quiet ride, heat, AC, everything is perfect on a new truck. if something breaks, take it to the dealer and let them mess with it. now on my 91 i have to worry about my heat or ac going out or my windshield wipers breaking or something like that. its just easier to own any kind of new vehicle. I mean i like newer trucks, but at the same time, i like the style of older stuff way better. just my two cents.