Future of Ford

[85e150six4mtod]

Originally Posted by LxMan1

EPA and refrigerant laws. The EPA is ruining this country in my opinion.

The year you were born you could not see more than a mile accross Los Angeles, and the Cuyahoga river was multicolored. In 1969 the river caught fire (again).

http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=1642

Too bad the EPA screwed that all up. Ford would be way ahead if they could only have those regs lifted.

[MageOfYork]

Originally Posted by jonbass40

i agree give me a manual and inline in a 150. great fuel economy and enough power to get almost any job done. Auto's are nice for women and inexperinced drivers but in my opinion all real trucks have a stick.

Um, excuse me. I own a '97 F350 PSD 4x4 CC with a manual and I drive it very well, thank you very much. My first Ford diesel was an '88 SRW CC with a Banks Sidewinder turbo, that I got 325,000 miles out of before I had to replace the original clutch. I am a female and that was my first manual truck. I used that truck to haul horses to my job daily.

I just bought a '99 F550 that I would have bought with manual if it were available. But I think it's "real" enough without it and hard enough to find, as I have been searching for it for months with what else I need for what I do with them. The manual transmission would have been nice but was not a deal-breaker for the price.

I have to say that the Banks was far more fuel efficient for me than the PSD and more powerful. I test drove the 6.0L in 2003 and the new 6.4L this year to see if I was in fact "missing out" and I didn't feel that I was. I'm inclined to stick with the 7.3s until they can come out with something that is the workhorse that my '88 was.

~Mage

[dascro]

We just have to accept that today we live in a global economy. There is no reason why our domestic auto manufacturers can not compete with the foriegn. The only reason that the foriegn automakers even got a foothold is because the management of the auto companies got lazy.

There is nothing that the japanese do that we can not do. They have no technology that we do not. We have many brilliant minds in this country. The reason that our auto companies are not operating at a profit is from greedy management that felt that the foreign competition was not legitimate.

[DeckedoutF150]

Originally Posted by dascro

We just have to accept that today we live in a global economy. There is no reason why our domestic auto manufacturers can not compete with the foriegn. The only reason that the foriegn automakers even got a foothold is because the management of the auto companies got lazy.

There is nothing that the japanese do that we can not do. They have no technology that we do not. We have many brilliant minds in this country. The reason that our auto companies are not operating at a profit is from greedy management that felt that the foreign competition was not legitimate.

whats global economy done for us?? what has it doen to this country?? what has it done to our economy?? what has it dont to our job market? how much has it lowered wages here?? all these global economy people have not thought about all that have they?? companies are very greedy i agree and something eneds to be done about them, that is alson one of the reasons we have a global economy is so the company care take advantage of people and make more money because they do not want to pay us all a decent wage and treat us right. they need to done something like tax these foregin products more and i think if you buy a foregin car the intrest rates should be higher along with the taxes. these contries tax our cars high and they dont import as much of our stuff as we do thire stuff.

[David85]

Originally Posted by dascro

We just have to accept that today we live in a global economy. There is no reason why our domestic auto manufacturers can not compete with the foriegn. The only reason that the foriegn automakers even got a foothold is because the management of the auto companies got lazy.

There is nothing that the japanese do that we can not do. They have no technology that we do not. We have many brilliant minds in this country. The reason that our auto companies are not operating at a profit is from greedy management that felt that the foreign competition was not legitimate.

I think I find myself in agreement with you again, dascro.

But that also means that the asian economies also have the same technology as we do, and the very same bright minds, so there is no real inherent advantage in any one part of the world anymore. The chinese are already taking advantage of much of the more advantaged manufacturing systems that were developed in the USA and japan.

Its going to come down to simple competition, and may the best product win...........either that, or more trade barriers to protect companies that can't keep up.

[osbornk]

Originally Posted by DeckedoutF150

whats global economy done for us?? what has it doen to this country?? what has it done to our economy?? what has it dont to our job market? how much has it lowered wages here?? all these global economy people have not thought about all that have they?? companies are very greedy i agree and something eneds to be done about them, that is alson one of the reasons we have a global economy is so the company care take advantage of people and make more money because they do not want to pay us all a decent wage and treat us right. they need to done something like tax these foregin products more and i think if you buy a foregin car the intrest rates should be higher along with the taxes. these contries tax our cars high and they dont import as much of our stuff as we do thire stuff.

You seem confused. Without a global economy, where would you get gas to put in your car or oil to heat your home or materials to make your plastics? Are you willing to pay double for your clothes, televisions, etc? What good is it if you make 25% higher wages if everything you buy cost over 25% more? You want the banks to make more money in interest and the government to collect more taxes when it is all coming out of your pocket? Look at all the fruit, vegtables and other things that we import that is not even available in the US in the off season. Those imported cars, motorcycles and trucks have forced the US companies into making a far better product than they would without the competition.

I like the global economy.

[dascro]

Originally Posted by David85

I think I find myself in agreement with you again, dascro.

But that also means that the asian economies also have the same technology as we do, and the very same bright minds, so there is no real inherent advantage in any one part of the world anymore. The chinese are already taking advantage of much of the more advantaged manufacturing systems that were developed in the USA and japan.

Its going to come down to simple competition, and may the best product win...........either that, or more trade barriers to protect companies that can't keep up.

Exactly, and lets hope that it is a simple competition rather than gov't interference. That way we, the consumer, benefit from it all. Although I don't have all the answers to some of the global problems today, I think we should welcome the global economy. It means a better product for everyone.

[Bushwhacker1]

The way of the future if the pickup truck is to survive is weight loss. This will necessitate two things. Reduce the footprint and use lighter materials. My 97 Aerostar AWD has a lot more snap with 4.0l than my 2000 F150 4.6l 4X4 extended cab long box. Why? Because it's a lot lighter. If you lose the long hood and build a front pivot hood for engine access you can shorten the footprint. If you use composite panels and aluminum structure you can save weight. Will it cost more? Maybe not as much as you think, since less weight means structurals can be less heavy for rated GVW. The automatic transmissions and coils per each cylinder are expensive complications when they break down. Also, the slush boxes are more inefficient and fuel consuming than the standard. You have to design for the driver that keeps his truck for 10 years, not 2 years.

[wantaford]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I agree with points on both sides. I have owned many Fords, old and new. Some I still have, some I wished I still had.

1964 Thunderbird
1968 Ford F-250 2x4
1970 Ford F-250 2x4
1971 Ford F-250 2x4
1972 Ford F-100 2x4
1972 Ford F-250 4x4
1972 Ford LTD
1978 Ford F-250 4x4
1992 Ford F-250 4x4
2002 Ford Excursion

I have wrenched on Fords 1970's, through 80's, 90's to current. I have worked on too many Japanese and German cars. I like the simplicity of the 60's and 70's Fords. I have found them to be reliable, and easy to work on (when they are not rusty). Heavy, and overbuilt at times. They lack the refinement of the current models. My little boys love to hear the big FE 390 roar through the headers and 3" exhaust. They love the feel and sound (the overall experience) of that truck. But I find that it isn't as predictable as the newer Fords in it's braking, and handling characteristics. I know It will never get better than 12 mpg. But it will pull a house off its foundation, I know it will start every time, and I have weighed out of the dirt pit at a gross vehicle weight of 14.5K lbs and didn't worry about breaking something.

I find the Fords from the 80's to be embarrassing and one of the dark chapters of the Ford Motor Company. Giving away sales to the Japanese brands (GM and Chrysler are no better). Yes I am aware the Taurus saved Ford for a short time but they cashed in on that short stint and didn't maintain quality or ingenuity. My 92 F-250 was a good truck but the fit and finish of the exterior panels didn't fit right, gaps were too wide. Orange peel hell paint. Interior fit and finish components felt like a cheap rubbermaid container. Rattled like crazy. While Ford was playing catchup to the Japanese (not in pulling capacities but reliability and quality), the Japanese are building there reputation on quality and value. That why Toyota has match GM is manufactured production units. Ford is just barley getting to (within the last few years or so) the quality standards to that of a Japanese brand (Honda, Toyota, Nissan) .

I am a strong advocate of supporting US products and businesses. But that devotion only goes so far. I refuse to support products that are inferior or overpriced, or have poor residuals. My hard earned dollars are going to go to what will provide myself with the best value. I am also ashamed that Ford, GM, and Chrysler have outsourced production and parts to Mexico, Canada, South America, and China. While the Japanese and Korean brands have been investing in the US. I know some of Fords products are still assembled state side. Ford started doing this in the late 60's. The factory radios out of all my 70's pickups state "Made in Brazil".

I have owned and still own some Japanese cars. It is so much easier to work on my Nissan Maxima’s than most domestic products. I know all the hardware will be metric, I won't have to get into GUMBY mode to get parts out. I just changed the Fuel Pump in my ‘93 Maxima (that has 210K miles) and it was a snap. Pop the back seat, remove 6 bolts on the access panel in the floor, 8 bolts on the pump to tank. Pull out the pump assembly replace pump - Boom, 25 mins), I didn’t have to drain and drop a fuel tank and dump gasoline all over me and spend 4 hours to complete. I worked on a 2002 Taurus recently changing the A/C compressor and I can not tell you what a joke that car is to work on. Half the bolts are metric and the other half is SAE.

If you look at the new Toyota Tundra and Nissan Titan. Those trucks are designed and built in the United States. How many jobs are Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Subaru, etc. providing versus some domestic brands? Sadly the Dodge Ram is designed in Detroit/Germany, assembled in Mexico with much of the parts being produced in Central America. The new Ford flex coming out this summer is coming from a Canadian plant. How much more Apple Pie can you get then the good old Crown Victoria - it's been assembled in Canada for forever.

My point is Ford s not blameless. They are a huge worldwide player and they have made some fantastic products from time to time. But they have followed the trend that most US companies have gone - outsourcing the cheapest parts, the cheapest labor to sell with the greatest margin - The current American way. We as Americans want the best for the cheapest price so we (the consumer) force outsourcing.

I work primarily in the retail Furniture business. 3 major mills closed this last year that have been in business for decades. The little amount of domestically made furniture that is left - the fabrics and covers are being outsourced from Asia. The good old La-Z-Boy recliner. Still made in America? We'll sort of! The mechanism comes from China, the foam is made state side. The plywood used in the frames is US, the fabric/leather is China sourced. All of it sent over here to misc US plant to be final assembled here in the US - and it is still sold as "Made in America". 90% of the case goods, and upholstery are coming from overseas. Most of it from Asia. It gets better - some of the companies use wood exported from the US and then ship it back over here in a container. "Contains US hardwoods"! Are American's ready to give up there Wal Marts and there French owned Targets? Are Americans ready to truly sacrifice to support Domestic products? I don't think so - I will get off my soap box now (PS: Please don't take any offense to my above commentary is it is simply my opinion - that is what makes America great)!

[fonefiddy]

It's true, that we as consumers control most of the market.

But it's a catch 22. Say Joe blow is working at a plant. The plant closes, outsourcing his job to (insert name of foriegn country w/sweat shop here). He sits on unemployment barely scraping by. And is forced to stretch every penny. There-by supporting the visious cycle, by buying these cheap imports that forced him out of his job. Then when he does get a job, he makes 30% less income. Perpetuating it further. Forcing him to keep buying products produced in sweat shops, with child/forced/prison labor.

American consumers refuse to get their heads out of their a$$'s. We need to wake up and see what our buying practices are doing to our country/economy.

If you remember the "Buy USA, Your job depends on it" campaign that occured back in the 70's-80's. They warned of this very situation. Peeps refused to believe. And here we sit, complaining that everything is made in China!

I'd urge peeps to type Made in USA into google, and try to support the products made by Americans.

Then, get consumer concious. At least, try to comsume products that are labor freindly

http://www.nlcnet.org/

[dascro]

Fonefiddy you are negelecting some points but have made some strong points. I support fair labor. But I am also a supporter of the global economy. That "buy american" campaign was a band-aide. One of the reasons was that the UAW and other unions started to demand more than they deserved. Have you seen what toyota pays its american workers? It is very very fair but still much lower than the UAW. Remember that the majority of these jobs are basically unskilled. What the UAW pays is more than I make as a staff level engineer in the same company, how does that make sense?

Another problem we have is most Americans have been living an atificially inflated lifestyle. How many people do you know that bought a house with no money down. The average credit card debit is in the thousands. In most areas of the country you cannot buy a house for less than 200k, many areas its getting close to 500k. Therefore a company cannot pay a fair wage for many jobs, people are too used to the inflated lifestyle. So the job goes overseas. I think that we all just are in for a bit of adjustment back to reality. It may hurt but it is for the better. Watching the news last night, I think that maybe that adjustment is starting.

Also, I am no expert on the economy but I remember hearing that china is playing a game with the value of their currency that makes it more appealing to have products manufactured there...

Also, I don't believe Europe has much manufacturing and hasn't for some time. how have they adapted?

All in all I buy the best product I can afford. I will pay a few dollars more if it is american, but it had better be of equal or better quality.

A good example of this is Cannondale bicycles. They are a few dollars more than anything else out there, but they also are obviously of the highest quality. Their paint is the nicest paint job I have ever seen. Their welds are well done to add the apperance. They constantly come up with innovations that are completely original to them. they have the best warrenty in the business. All being made in america for a few dollars (50 or less) more than the competition.

My point is we can survive and prosper in the global economy, we just have to trim the fat.

[David85]

This reminds me of remarks that the canadian autoworkers union president made. He was blaming a trade deficit between canada and korea for some of the lost jobs in ontario saying that while korean companies like hyundai are allowed to flood our market with cheap cars, canadian made cars (including fords) are not allowed to be exported to korea for sale in their markets.

It may be true it may not (I always thought Buzz was full of **** anyway), but my first reaction was to burst out laughing! Why the hell would some one in korea buy a gas guzzling dodge intrepid, when they can get a cheaper, more reliable, more fuel efficient hyundai thats made in their own back yard??? He used dodge as an example because its his favorite company (has a fat pension from them).

As I said before, there is no inherent advantage to building a car in canada or the USA or anywhere else, it just comes down to competition, make a better product, and people will buy it, but taking costumer loyalty for granted is disaster waiting to happen. I for one will not buy a new truck, but if I was forced to consider one, it would not be a ford, just not satisfied with MPG numbers or marketing strategy.

[150ford]

So what truck would you buy an why? Just curious

[David85]

Originally Posted by 150ford

So what truck would you buy an why? Just curious

My first choice has always been and always will be to build a proper truck MY way from the ground up............but if some one held a gun to my head and forced me to take one off the show room floor, than I would probably go with a GMC.

Even a few ford fans have admitted better fuel economy (variable displacement, and available hybrid), and they still have the higher power if needed. I'd probably opt for a 1/2 ton, the diesels lately have no advantage in terms of MPGs anymore.

They are still not even close to my standards for what a truck should be, but compared to the new fords, my opinion is that the GMC is a hair closer (maybe half a hair).

[fonefiddy]

If you read the real life reviews, the GMC's are not really getting that great of fuel milage. The variable fuel management is designed so that as long as your on flat ground, cruising a constant speed, AC on low, no,or a tail wind, it'll activate.

How many times a day do you suppose you'd actually meet those requirements?