Number dummy. I think i mentioned the AOD was a POS. That was a huge mistake and part of the growing pains of going to a more modern tranmission. I don't think either GM or dodge had a much better trans in those days either. As i said before, I think the overdrive trans is just now coming into its own.
What year 8.8 are you mentioning. Again I have never heard of problems with the 8.8. Many rockcrawlers and offroaders swap in a ford 8.8 because of its durability. Again it wasn't really a direct replacement for the 9 inch though was it...
As for the 5.4 I don't think i made the comparsion to the 460 i believe that was you. They are made for very different jobs. Try comparing the 6.8 to the 460. You will that the 6.8 gets better mpg and has more power.
The 5.4 was made to compare to the 351 and GM 350. It does pretty well in the role IMO. Look at the torque curves for all 3. I have no complaints about the 5.4 when looked at in that manner. Only when comparing it to heavy duty engines does it start to look bad.
"Squeeking interior plastic. Not everyone has the luxury of driving on smooth highways. If pot holes were present, or someone drove a few gravel or dirt roads, it wasn't long before the clips holding the parts together, worked loose."
Again do you really believe this? I lived on a farm my entire life. The city road to get to my house is bad enough but lets not forget the miles and miles of dirt roads i've driven. Never had a plastic clip come off. Does that make a vehicle start to squeak after a while? Yes it does, but it does on every vehicle that i've experienced from the 70s onward.
I agree those are common complaints today. But can you honestly say that the trucks of the 50's 60s 70s or 80s are quieter inside than today? Not a chance, the only reason there are more complaints is because we've come to expect more. In the older trucks it would have been hard to pick out one particular noise to complain about
I see nothing wrong with the paint quality today. I have seen some custom restored cars with very expensive paint jobs and while yes they are better, I'll take the less money for a paint job that is hardly noticeably worse. Also paint jobs are nicer for much longer today than ever.
I think your a bit low on the MPG but as has been discussed in the other threads here I agree that the automakers have dropped the ball there. But then compare the power we get today. Its not a trade off I am happy about but one worth mentioning nonetheless.
BTW I am also worked in the auto industry, but from the engineering side..
The cheap Chinese imitations are far higher quality than the the typical cars of old.
You've gotta be kidding...that replacement sheet metal is just pure crap.
It doesn't fit right and it has ZERO rust protection applied.
Want lower insurance rates? What's the REAL secret behind some of the low rates?
Some insurance companies insist that body shops use only Taiwanese (and now mainland China) sheet metal, which is cheaper than OEM parts.
Rust protection...living in CA, rust isn't an issue...but when I go east, I see nearly new vehicles rusted out...bubbling rust above wheel wells, in rocker panels, fender corners...I can just imagine what's hidden beneath the surface.
Look around this site...ppl b!tching about rust, and not only on 30 yrs old vehicles, but 5 year old vehicles.
Galvanized steel: Depending on conditions, the product can last ten years (as pipe..in the ground), it might only last 10 months. According to the Corrosion Engineer (P.E. & and member of NACE) that I just happen to be married to, galvanized steel is only as good as conditions allow. The more salt in the air, or on the ground (roads), the less it lasts.
__________________ Bill / Retired Ford Partsman ~ 1962/97
Part number research: Trucks 1948/02 / Cars 1949/91
I agree with what you said about galvanized steel. But something has changed. Vehicles last much longer today without rust problems than they did in the past.
Notice I did not say they will not rust? OF course they will rust through, and the salt on the roads in the NE make that happen much quicker. But overall they are lasting longer today than they did in the past.
Yeah you are right about the insurance. I fought that fight before. I eventually got my way but it was a big fight. I really can't comment on the quality of those parts. maybe they are of equal quality, i really don't know. I know that I want OEM parts on my truck though.
"Squeeking interior plastic. Not everyone has the luxury of driving on smooth highways. If pot holes were present, or someone drove a few gravel or dirt roads, it wasn't long before the clips holding the parts together, worked loose."
Again do you really believe this? YES...Did you work at a dealer? If you did, you would have had to listen to dozens of ppl b!tching about squeeks so annoying, that they turned the radio volume up to drown it out!I lived on a farm my entire life. The city road to get to my house is bad enough but lets not forget the miles and miles of dirt roads i've driven. Never had a plastic clip come off. Does that make a vehicle start to squeak after a while? Yes it does, but it does on every vehicle that i've experienced from the 70s onward. It's not about fasteners coming off...that usually doesn't happen...what DOES happen, is a gap develops between the fastener and the panel. SQUEEK CITY!
I see nothing wrong with the paint quality today. I have seen some custom restored cars with very expensive paint jobs and while yes they are better, I'll take the less money for a paint job that is hardly noticeably worse. Also paint jobs are nicer for much longer today than ever.
I think your a bit low on the MPG but as has been discussed in the other threads here I agree that the automakers have dropped the ball there. But then compare the power we get today. Its not a trade off I am happy about but one worth mentioning nonetheless.
BTW I am also worked in the auto industry, but from the engineering side..
What I typed was based on 35 yrs as a Ford parts manager/counterperson. I also took care of the warranty claims processing for 30 years...so I know where the problems existed.
The paint quality today is just awful. Runs, drips, errors...maybe you are used to orange peel, but it was NEVER a real issue till the automakers switched to two stage paint.
__________________ Bill / Retired Ford Partsman ~ 1962/97
Part number research: Trucks 1948/02 / Cars 1949/91
A major factor on rust issues and salt is maintanance, wash it. Get the under side, there are more car washes available now than there was in the 70's and 80's. The metal today may not be as good as it used to be but the paint is far more superior. Bare metal will rust, don't care were it's made, China, Canada, or the U.S., it will rust with no protection.
If you are buying new repalcement sheet metal, there doesn't need to be much of a rust inhibitor, it's in a box, it's up to the person installing it to properly prep it and paint it.
It is foolish to think that the quality of a vehicle made in the 60's 70's 80's whenever is superior to the quality of a vehicle produced today.
I have stated my opinion on the paint many times. I have noted your opinion. We will have to agree to disagree.
Lets assume that you are correct and the paint was a better job in the past. I would still take the modern paint job because of the advances in paints and clearcoats we have today. Maybe it would look inferior, but it will look nicer for longer than on from years past.
Also can you honestly say that when you ride in a newer vehicle, it is louder inside than if you rode in an older vehicle?
What I typed was based on 35 yrs as a Ford parts manager/counterperson. I also took care of the warranty claims processing for 30 years...so I know where the problems existed.
The paint quality today is just awful. Runs, drips, errors...maybe you are used to orange peel, but it was NEVER a real issue till the automakers switched to two stage paint.
maybe instead of moaning and groaning about this problem you see why dont you figure out a way they can fix the problem...seams that if you have all this experiences you like to talk about you would have a good idea on how to fix the problem...
i know i don't expect to get a show paint job but i do expect a good factory paint job and i did some inspecting when i got my truck and it looks pretty good and i do have an eye for paint because i have done custom motorcycle paint work and these trucks today are not 100% but they are far better than you make them out to be...
don't take this personal but you sound like the typical middle aged person that likes to complain about everything and how good it used to be and how bad it is now....well, if thats you then i am sorry for you and your poor outlook on things because they are not nearly as bad as you make them out to be...
__________________ Pennsylvania Chapter: Enjoying our little part of the world 2007 F150 XLT super cab, chrome package, 18" Chrome Clad Wheels, 5" Step Bar, 3.73 LS, 5.4 FFV 4x4
2002 Harley Davidson V-Rod --to many mods--
2006 Polaris 700CC Sportsman --to many mods--
YES the AOD was a POS...the most troublesome transmission Ford ever made....and here's why.
In heavy stop and go traffic, the trans quickly fries its guts.
This is caused by the trans constanly shifting up/down between drive and overdrive. It wasn't long before the trans fried. Ford came out with a bulletin in 1982, advising dealers to tell their customers to STAY OUT of overdrive in certain traffic conditions.
Ask ANY Ford trans tech about the AOD, they'll tell you it was a POS from day one.
__________________ Bill / Retired Ford Partsman ~ 1962/97
Part number research: Trucks 1948/02 / Cars 1949/91
A 5.4 is more powerful engine than a 390, a 460, or even a 352?
Yeah right...it can barely out pull a 302.
And...all the newer piles have paper thin sheet metal, plastic everywhere, computers, calibration codes, thin uncomfortable seats, crappy brakes.
The build quality is better?
Take another look: Compare your '95 with your '07: The current piles have: horrible paint quality that's rife with orange peel, misaligned plastic parts held together with plastic clips, paper thin aluminum trim that tweaks when you put your fingers on it.
It doesn't take long for all that plastic crappola to start a squeekin' and a rattlin.'
Stronger frames? Ford used C channel for 90 years, and still use it on Super Duty's, and most of the other vehicles. The current F150's have fully boxed frames...all that did was add weight...lots of it.
...and as far as tougher axles...and better transmissions go...
THE BEST REAR AXLE EVER: FORD 9 INCH
THE BEST AUTO TRANSMISSION EVER: FORD C6.
Any day of the week i'll put my 5.4 up against ANY 302....for that matter i'll put my 5.4 up against anyones 300 I6 or 351.....My truck will out pull any one of those stock trucks...
Build quality is far better....body lines match up better....i like my current seats way better than the ones in my 95....and come take a ride with me....not a squeak or rattle in my 07....and there wasn't in my 05 after 40000 miles either.....my 95 however squeaked and rattled from the day i bought it...even before i lifted it.
are you seriously implying that the boxed frames aren't stronger than the old c-channel frames? look at the numbers for released when the trucks came out in 04.....and if you don't believe them...go visit any insurance junkyard...and find a totaled 04-08...look at the frame....and then tell me they aren't strong....
I could go on for days...but I really don't think it would matter...
__________________
2007 Lariat screw - tri coat met - chrome package - Black leather captains chairs - sunroof - audiophile
My final thoughts on this subject are, newer trucks a much better truck than they used to be, if it was so good back then why did they change it? And I won't for a second believe it's all about the money, Ford is on it's third year of losses yet they still produce the best truck available.
So the hp ratings are lower but torque is higher. When I need my truck to work for me the newer ones will definatly out perform my 88 and my 88 out performed my 75 and so on. The 5.4L is an excellent replacement for both the 5.0 and the 5.8L.
I have to say to Ford keep up the good work and to those who don't like it, quit compalining, buy another brand and let us loyal ford owners rule the road like we have for 50 years. See how long it takes to come back to the blue oval.
Any day of the week i'll put my 5.4 up against ANY 302....for that matter i'll put my 5.4 up against anyones 300 I6 or 351.....My truck will out pull any one of those stock trucks...
Build quality is far better....body lines match up better....i like my current seats way better than the ones in my 95....and come take a ride with me....not a squeak or rattle in my 07....and there wasn't in my 05 after 40000 miles either.....my 95 however squeaked and rattled from the day i bought it...even before i lifted it.
are you seriously implying that the boxed frames aren't stronger than the old c-channel frames? look at the numbers for released when the trucks came out in 04.....and if you don't believe them...go visit any insurance junkyard...and find a totaled 04-08...look at the frame....and then tell me they aren't strong....
I could go on for days...but I really don't think it would matter...
i'll put my 07 up against any older style f150 for any comparison...i owned a 302 f150 and my 07 would out do that truck in every category easily and my pop owned a 351 and i'll put a whooping on that one too...
__________________ Pennsylvania Chapter: Enjoying our little part of the world 2007 F150 XLT super cab, chrome package, 18" Chrome Clad Wheels, 5" Step Bar, 3.73 LS, 5.4 FFV 4x4
2002 Harley Davidson V-Rod --to many mods--
2006 Polaris 700CC Sportsman --to many mods--
i'll put my 07 up against any older style f150 for any comparison...i owned a 302 f150 and my 07 would out do that truck in every category easily and my pop owned a 351 and i'll put a whooping on that one too...
Hey....me too....now a fun time would be my 07 against your 07....hurm....lets just not take FTE Ken on...his supercharger would beat us both....
__________________
2007 Lariat screw - tri coat met - chrome package - Black leather captains chairs - sunroof - audiophile
Hey....me too....now a fun time would be my 07 against your 07....hurm....lets just not take FTE Ken on...his supercharger would beat us both....
yeah, i'm not about to mess with a SC truck but these trucks we have would out pull any of the older models....
i just want to be clear in that i still think that the older models were good trucks but for people to make the assumption that the older ones were better than the new ones is crazy...
my pop had a older F-series with a 460 and he has driven my truck with 2+ cord of wood on the trailer and his exact words were "my truck did pretty good but this thing does it better, is nicer, quieter, and a better looking truck"
__________________ Pennsylvania Chapter: Enjoying our little part of the world 2007 F150 XLT super cab, chrome package, 18" Chrome Clad Wheels, 5" Step Bar, 3.73 LS, 5.4 FFV 4x4
2002 Harley Davidson V-Rod --to many mods--
2006 Polaris 700CC Sportsman --to many mods--
i think some of you guys are just too cheeap to upgrade and you are mad about all the advancements that are taking place... i might only be 21 but i hold my own on truck knowledge. and the old ones arent any better then the new ones even if there is less plastic and less wiring. just be glad we arent dodge owners we would still be looking for a tranny that works. its guys like alot of you that keep that old truck market up! keep it up, buy them all up so they dont get scrapped , you compare the old halftons that had those little bitty tires on them and the new ones running 265s there isnt a comparison. the towing ratings dont lie, and its not that they are build like tanks either. they ride nice too, AND you can even talk to the guy next to you because of the quiet steel. so you guys dont like the fact they can pull 10,000lbs..... so buy a ranger.. they dont weigh as much and pull less... by complaining on here they arent gonig to start making 1975's again... so i would start patting them on the back for not going under. if they wouldve stuck with the 70s models with the 460s they wouldve went under by 1980... and half of you wouldnt even have anything to talk about on here because your truck never got made because they never "improved"..
think about it....later..
__________________
2003 F-150.... Airaid, edge evo, piaa's, exhaust and just about all the chrome u can buy...
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, you compare the old halftons that had those little bitty tires on them and the new ones running 265s there isnt a comparison. the towing ratings dont lie, and its not that they are build like tanks either. they ride nice too, AND you can even talk to the guy next to you because of the quiet steel. so you guys dont like the fact they can pull 10,000lbs..... so buy a ranger.. they dont weigh as much and pull less... by complaining on here they arent gonig to start making 1975's again... so i would start patting them on the back for not going under. if they wouldve stuck with the 70s models with the 460s they wouldve went under by 1980... and half of you wouldnt even have anything to talk about on here because your truck never got made because they never "improved"..
