Ford and John Deere

[tex25025]

Originally Posted by bf250

who in the heck cares who makes the diesel anyway.

Actually there are alot of people(even on this board, although i am not including myself in this) that would buy depending on who makes the diesel. Particularly if the diesel is outsourced to a company that is foreign owned(doesn't make economical sense rather or not the company is foreign or not, but that's what people have issues with, I guess they are still upset about NAFTA and stuff like that). So I believe some would definately base on who makes the engine. A good point would be, if you have someone that has a very solid reputation on making an engine, I would be even tempted to buy it moreso then a company that hasn't made a diesel engine for their trucks in so many years out of a desperate need to make one and get one to market, I would be leary of it. I might still buy it, but not quite as easy. It would depend on more factors then just that of course, but that definately a concern.

[poppie]

nothing run's like a deere or smell's like a John,just kidding,this March our JD 720 gas will be "50" year's old and never been overhauled,not even had the valve's ground,on the other had if it's "RED" leave it in the shed!!!!!!.

[FARM69]

We have a 4020 NA with 16,000 hours on it. Nothing has been done to the engine itself. Although, it's gone through a few clutches in its day. However, I guess this is kind of a useless fact sense it is non-turbo and doesn't see the extreme pressures.

Look at the big rig industry. People buy trucks by what engine the have in them. You can order basically any model with the setup you want.

I still think it would look amazing to see a 7.6l in an OBS truck.

[sneak]

Originally Posted by FARM69

We have a 4020 NA with 16,000 hours on it. Nothing has been done to the engine itself. Although, it's gone through a few clutches in its day. However, I guess this is kind of a useless fact sense it is non-turbo and doesn't see the extreme pressures.

Look at the big rig industry. People buy trucks by what engine the have in them. You can order basically any model with the setup you want.

I still think it would look amazing to see a 7.6l in an OBS truck.

Exactly, we've got two 4020s that have been overhauled once each, though I don't know the # of hours on them, I could check on one tonight. The fact is that NO other tractor in it's generation has appreciated as much value as the 4020! At an auction nothing sells as well as a good or rebuildable 4020 either.

[sneak]

Here would be a good engine for a project 1/4 ton truck for daily driving.

http://jdpsesc.deere.com/ESComp/serv...langCode=en_US

EDIT: I don't know why it wouldn't let me edit my other post.

[carlcrout]

The 4.5 Liter engines are made in France. JD owns the plant. I have two JD6220's........

[stormyrider]

Deere has no engines certified for road use and the ones in the farm tractors are worse for fuel consumption versus horsepower on the market. They have always been fuel hogs and Deere parts come with a extra charge for that green paint. Most farmers a round this area are getting away from Deere and going with IH or New Holland. IH is getting the larger market share.

[sneak]

Well around here its about 60/40 JD/everything else.

[tex25025]

Originally Posted by stormyrider

Deere has no engines certified for road use and the ones in the farm tractors are worse for fuel consumption versus horsepower on the market.

Not the little yanmar engine ones in the Deere tractors. I can run the chipper all day long and only use a gallon of fuel.

[fordfaninIL.]

I have an uncle that worked for JD in the corporate office in the quad cities (Davenport, Ia.). A group from JD got to go to Detroit and tour the GM plant in the 80's when JD was considering building engines for GM. He said that it was a joke, the plant was a mess and there where couches and recliners sitting around for people to "relax" on their breaks. He said everyone in the JD group concluded that JD had enough labor issues and did not need to get involved with GM's. As for JD building an engine for Ford, it would just not work on the basis that they only build off road engines. It would take years to develop a highway use engine to meet emissions. And btw, I can list multiple 'red' engines that have made it to the 20k hr. mark and have yet to be touched.

[carlcrout]

Originally Posted by stormyrider

Deere has no engines certified for road use and the ones in the farm tractors are worse for fuel consumption versus horsepower on the market. They have always been fuel hogs and Deere parts come with a extra charge for that green paint. Most farmers a round this area are getting away from Deere and going with IH or New Holland. IH is getting the larger market share.

1. JD's have always gotten better fuel consumption
2. IH hasn't been around since they went out of business in the 80's. It became Case-IH. Now Case-IH and New Holland are the same.
3. JD's have typically been priced about the same as CaseIH or maybe slightly higher. On resale JD's win everytime. Check out some auctions

You are obviously not a farmer, maybe a "wannabe"?

[bf250]

it don't matter who makes it, unless the maker will have control of every aspect from the fuel tank to the tail pipe.

ford is going to request something with a price on it. most likely any company that takes the off up will have to take away the typical quality found in its diesels in order to match the price ford wants. that in itself would remove any of the historic foundation a company has laid for its quality diesels.

plus, without a for light truck use line or department already open, it would take huge sums of money to get up to speed, and that is a lot of money if its going to be competing with someone for a rights contract. plus they would have to recover the r&d costs, to me that would leave too narrow of a profit margin for any major company to consider if they are not already involved in the lgiht truck market.

just my opinion. not saying it would not happen, anyone who does get a contract with ford does have an almost 100% guarantee of truck sales. its just if someone wants to risk the headache.

[FARM69]

There is no way to compare an agricultural used engine (i.e tractor or any off road rated engine) to an engine that would be used on the highway. You might be able to rate it by hp for cylinder displacement or maybe fuel consumption. However, these number do not really mean much. The bottom line is that when the day is done, how much did you use to get the job done. Depending on the application the engine is usually under load created boost. The technology advances that Deere, Case, etc, have gone through in the last 30 years is unbelieveable. Just look during the 70's when air to air came out. The output of these engines sky rocketed. Lets face it, emissions for off road engines are not as strict as on road. I highly doubt Deere would put up the effort to create a beast that would.

Also, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I'm assuming that off road engines are rated for intermediate power instead of peak (which is probably used for our engines).

Everybody knows that green paint is expensive, but i'll tell ya one thing. It all comes down to fuel efficiency when your burning 150 gallons in eight hours day after day.

I'm sure someone that runs irrigation pumps can tell us all about fuel efficiency in agriculture engines.

[Lead Head]

Originally Posted by FARM69

There is no way to compare an agricultural used engine (i.e tractor or any off road rated engine) to an engine that would be used on the highway. You might be able to rate it by hp for cylinder displacement or maybe fuel consumption. However, these number do not really mean much. The bottom line is that when the day is done, how much did you use to get the job done. Depending on the application the engine is usually under load created boost. The technology advances that Deere, Case, etc, have gone through in the last 30 years is unbelieveable. Just look during the 70's when air to air came out. The output of these engines sky rocketed. Lets face it, emissions for off road engines are not as strict as on road. I highly doubt Deere would put up the effort to create a beast that would.

Also, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I'm assuming that off road engines are rated for intermediate power instead of peak (which is probably used for our engines).

Everybody knows that green paint is expensive, but i'll tell ya one thing. It all comes down to fuel efficiency when your burning 150 gallons in eight hours day after day.

I'm sure someone that runs irrigation pumps can tell us all about fuel efficiency in agriculture engines.

Not quite sure what you mean by that, the diesels in these trucks, ford, dodge, etc..are also used in other applications besides trucks, like pumps, etc.. where they have to hold peak HP or torque day after day.

[tex25025]

Originally Posted by FARM69

Also, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I'm assuming that off road engines are rated for intermediate power instead of peak (which is probably used for our engines).

The 3 deeres that I have are rated by peak.