2004 F150 Spark Plug / Dealer Question

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#31

01-28-2008, 05:56 PM

04 FX4 Lineman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ranger88a

So far I've had fairly good luck. And I will agree Ford isn't standing up to this issue. I just don't believe blaming the techs and making them pay for an engineering stupidity is right either! After all try working on a flat rate system!

I see where u are coming from I absolutely don't think the tech's should have to stand it I honestly don't know how u tech's can make it on a flat rate system with these new high tech vehicles, but ford should and by not doing so is going to cost them dearly in the end IMO.

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#32

01-28-2008, 06:35 PM

Ron W.

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The last Ford dealer I worked at we had a customer come in for a plug change, 04 or 05 F150 5.4L. Sure enough 1 plug per side broke, special service tool supplied could not get the plugs out. Customer comes in next day to pick up his truck and instead sees the cab up in the air (on the hoist) both heads off and the tech just as pissed as he was. As far as I know the dealership ate the cost of the repair.
Is it fair to the tech or the dealer, NO but Ford isn't going to pay for it even though in my opinion they should.
As far as flat rate pay is concerned it should be outlawed, some one always feels they're getting ripped off. The book says 2 hours the tech gets it done in 1, customer feels ripped off, same repair take the tech 3 hours, the tech feels ripped off. The dealer tech breaks plugs everyone feels ripped off except corporate Ford.
I posted my opinion of flat rate on the fmcdealer.com message forums and received a call from a corporate Ford employee. according to him Ford does not like flat rate, I then asked him why does Ford reimburse the dealerships in set times per labor op? .2 for a DPFE, .2 to replace a front sway bar link 04/up F150, some of these times are so far from reality it's absurd.

Want to check some of the labor times?

http://www.fordtechservice.dealerconnection.com/vdirs/spubs/slts/generate.asp

Last edited by Ron W.; 01-28-2008 at 06:38 PM.

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#33

01-28-2008, 09:41 PM

04 FX4 Lineman

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Ron: Those flat rate times are the damned thing I have ever seen, I am surprised that anyone would even want to be an automotive tech anymore, I didn't see how much time they give u to replace plugs on a 5.4 3 V there would be no way to do that and make any money??? I was quoted $300 for a plug change and we didn't talk about what would happen if any broke off.

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#34

01-28-2008, 11:32 PM

johnh2000

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spark plugs

First of all, the airbags are covered for 5/50000. I don't think many if any dealers are going to cover the cost for a broken plug. It's not their fault that the design of the plugs/heads is so screwed up. I have heard that if you clean the carbon out with carbon/injector cleaner before you try to remove the plugs, that the usually don't break, but this too would be an additional expense. $300.00 labor to change these plugs is a bargin.

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#35

01-29-2008, 07:03 AM

Ron W.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by 04 FX4 Lineman

I didn't see how much time they give u to replace plugs on a 5.4 3 V

F-150, 4x4 2005 - Part: 12405 <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY></TBODY></TABLE>

Part: 12405
Related Operations: 12405A,

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%" colSpan=5>

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="100%" bgColor=white>Operation Description

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width=100 bgColor=white>Operation Number

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=100 bgColor=white>Time

</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%" colSpan=5>

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="100%">

Spark Plugs (12405) - Replace

Do not use with 6051A, 6007A14, 6051A11, 12650D64A, 12650D64B.

</FONT>

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>.

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width=100>

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>.

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=100>

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="100%">

4.6L MFI...ON

</FONT>

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>.

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width=100>12405A

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>.

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=100>0.5

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="100%">

4.6L MFI...TWO OR MORE

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>.

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width=100>12405AT

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>.

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=100>1.4

</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top width="100%">

5.4L 3V...ONE

5.4L 3V...TWO OR MORE

These are waranty reimbursement times, which also affect the Chiltons, Motors, etc labor times.
</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>.

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=left width=100>12405AT

</TD><TD vAlign=top width=2 bgColor=#000000>.

</TD><TD vAlign=top align=middle width=100>1.4

</TD></TR><TR><TD></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Last edited by Ron W.; 01-29-2008 at 07:08 AM.

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#36

01-29-2008, 08:46 AM

tomclem

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FMC is to blame. Being the FMC represented service departments break them during routine maintance, it will take a class action to get any result. FMC is doing many people wrong with this. Just look at the injector deal. FMC warrants my injectors on my 05' for an addition time/mileage b/c they said they might be defective. They volunteer to cover the 05' injectors but continue to sweep under the rug the 04'+ plug issue though probably more people are having plugs break on their 04's than injectors malfunctioning on their newer 05's. They've swept 4 years worth of 5.4 3v engines with plug/head issues under the rug. Bad thing is, a 1 piece plug would probably have solved the whole dang issue.

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#37

01-29-2008, 11:18 AM

04 FX4 Lineman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron W.

F-150, 4x4 2005 - Part: 12405 <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody></tbody></table>

Part: 12405
Related Operations: 12405A,

<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td colspan="5" width="100%">

</td></tr><tr><td bgcolor="white" valign="top" width="100%">Operation Description

</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">

</td><td align="left" bgcolor="white" valign="top" width="100">Operation Number

</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">

</td><td align="center" bgcolor="white" valign="top" width="100">Time

</td></tr><tr><td colspan="5" width="100%">

</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="100%">

Spark Plugs (12405) - Replace

Do not use with 6051A, 6007A14, 6051A11, 12650D64A, 12650D64B.

</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">.

</td><td align="left" valign="top" width="100">

</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">.

</td><td align="center" valign="top" width="100">

</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="100%">

4.6L MFI...ON

</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">.

</td><td align="left" valign="top" width="100">12405A

</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">.

</td><td align="center" valign="top" width="100">0.5

</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="100%">

4.6L MFI...TWO OR MORE

</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">.

</td><td align="left" valign="top" width="100">12405AT

</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">.

</td><td align="center" valign="top" width="100">1.4

</td></tr><tr><td valign="top" width="100%">

5.4L 3V...ONE

5.4L 3V...TWO OR MORE

These are waranty reimbursement times, which also affect the Chiltons, Motors, etc labor times.
</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">.

</td><td align="left" valign="top" width="100">12405AT

</td><td bgcolor="#000000" valign="top" width="2">.

</td><td align="center" valign="top" width="100">1.4

</td></tr><tr><td></td></tr></tbody></table>

Wow Ron these times don't even come close to the time it would take to follow fords TSB procedure for changeing the plugs????

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#38

01-29-2008, 11:19 AM

04 FX4 Lineman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tomclem

Tom: There is such a one piece plug out now I have seen pics of it can't remember where now but it is not a ford plug is from a after market supplier.

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#39

03-14-2008, 06:40 PM

mkoser

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoser

Hello All,

I bought a 2004 F150 FX4 new. I used to be active in the forum in years past, however life caught up with me and I have been away for a while.

My truck just ticked 51,000 miles and I now have an air bag issue. While researching the code 4-2 on the site, I discovered the spark plug issue.

I called my dealer to schedule an appt for the airbag and asked him about the spark plug issue. The service manager said that he was unaware of any issue with the spark plugs and that I should not worry about it until 100,000 miles. I told him I wanted to be proactive and either change out the plugs, or take them out and put anti-seize on them to prevent any breakage in the future.

He told my that it would be unnecessary for me to do that, but he would be willing to change out the plugs. I asked for a price quote and he said the plugs would be $8.95 per plug, and three hours of labor at $75 per hour.

I feel that 296.60 is kind of crazy to have the spark plugs changed, however I don't want to have to pay thousands in the future for broken plug removal.

Basically my question is: Should I pay the 300 now to have them changed out, or take the service advisors advice and just wait. I'm already thinking I'm going have to pay $$$ for this airbag repair (since I am out of warranty by 1,000 miles... figures....)

Thanks alot,

MK

Well I took it in and had the plugs changed out. They broke one on each side. It cost me 300 for the plug change and 3 hours labor to remove the broken plugs.... Plus 150 something for the airbag sensor with labor...

So I walked out of the dealer paying around 675.00 for a plug change and air bag sensor.. I feel used..

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#40

03-14-2008, 07:29 PM

Tylus

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mkoser

and that's why people should leave them in there until the 100k unless there is a actual problem...I'm glad you got off cheap...well, relatively cheap compared to a head pull

IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT

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#41

03-19-2008, 08:00 AM

obx h2o boy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by tylus

And what happens when you bring your truck in at 105k for "routine" maintenance, and ALL the plugs stick in the head? You're still paying for it either way.

Not flaming, or trying to be insulting, just playing Devil's advocate.

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#42

03-19-2008, 08:10 AM

JimTex

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Once again, my dealer followed the TSB, got all my plugs out with none broken, at 65,500. They said it could have gone to 100,000. I use a tier one gas and I think that helps. They also said in all that they had pulled, they had only one broken plug and it was removed with the tap tool. I think if you use gas with a detergent, and follow the TSB, you will get them out just fine.

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#43

03-19-2008, 01:21 PM

air1jpg

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Quote:

Originally Posted by JimTex

Don't most common gas stations have gas with detergents in it? What are some of the stations that do not?

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#44

03-19-2008, 01:31 PM

04 FX4 Lineman

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It is a federa law that all fuel has detergents for emmission purposes but I think your top tier fuel may have better detergents than say costco or safeway??????

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#45

03-19-2008, 02:28 PM

JimTex

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Quote:

Originally Posted by air1jpg

Don't most common gas stations have gas with detergents in it? What are some of the stations that do not?

There may be others, but I buy one of these.

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html

They way I understand it, there is a minimum requirement by the government, but that is inadequate for the fuel injection systems. Only those that meet the top tier are supposed to be at the level needed for the systems.

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