Personally, If I was towing much over 8000lbs, I'd wan't dual rear wheels anyway. Had a friend blow a tire in a curve with single rear wheel, it wasn't pretty. He has a F350 Dually 7.3L now for towing his enclosed trailer.
I tow about 7500lbs with my 01 F150. I wouldn't haul much more with any single wheel 1/2 ton truck.
Personally I am more comfortable towing with my dual wheeled F-350 then any other truck because the way it handles..
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Fuel costs haven't stopped people caring about the truck horsepower race because people who can afford new trucks and the insurance and the sales tax don't need to care about fuel costs. (Selling to well-off people is always good practice since they have more disposable income.) Gas in the US is still cheaper in terms of wages than during the gas crisis, and anyone can buy as much as they want.
Anyone who wants an economical vehicle has choices out the proverbial wazoo, including older Civics and Accords (or VWs, I'm putting my Scirocco back on the road) or motorcycles .
I rather like the trend of heavy-duty consumer trucks. I'll have a nice choice of used ones in the coming recession.
Actually gas is about the same as it was during the gas crisis when adjusted. I was within a few cents last time i checked.
I have a fairly high paying job and live in one of the cheapest places in the country. I am have no children and live a very modest lifestyle. I can afford the gas for these trucks. But i also think its foolish to happily do something simply because I can afford to. There are much better things to do with my money then throw it away in gasoline. I think that is a poor argument that is often brought up when discussing the MPG of these trucks.
I do not use my truck as a truck every day. I use it to drive to work everyday but I use it to help an elderly family member run his farm on the weekends and in the evenings. I use it pull trailers when I head to the campsite a few times a year, to haul firewood several times a year. This is the reason that trucks are so popular in this country. To say that only the wealthy are buying these trucks and using them as a status symbol is an ignorant statement. Selling to the well off population is a good idea but farmers and contractors are some of the biggest buyers of pickups and many of them are not what I would consider "well-off"
I understand that I pay extra (in fuel costs) for the versatility of a vehicle that can do all the things I need to do. But it is wrong to say that I should happily throw away more and more money each month on gas. I want the best MPG that I can possibly get while still having a vehicle that fits my needs. If are wealthy enough to not care about gas prices then you in a very very small minority.
I'm all for the consumer controlling the market. J'ever notice how truck sales are down?
Now If Ford would have brought a truck out that got an honest 25 MPG. Their sales would be up. Lotsa peeps, me included, could justify buying new. With that kind of savings potential.
Also, with the amount of people that drive trucks for a daily driver. Every MPG counts towards thousand of gallons a day saved. Which, in the long run will bring down demand. Which will bring down the price of oil.
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85 F Two Fiddy-6.9/C6/3.54/ Holley Red, Racor, Soup Bowl,AutoJet 3",Ride Rite Rear
"I think that is a poor argument that is often brought up when discussing the MPG of these trucks. "
Until their poor mileage actually changes enough buyers behavior to FORCE improvement, the poor mileage arguably does not matter. How many people are buying aftermarket mileage improving tech as opposed to hotrod mods? Engines with high output sell, not little 4BT-equivalents de-tuned for thrift.
Work trucks that actually get good mileage are like the gutless, cabover, stick-shift, flat-bed-with-drop-sides beasts of burden that do the job in the rest of the world. The US doesn't buy a lot of those and they for sure don't fill suburban driveways.
"farmers and contractors are some of the biggest buyers of pickups and many of them are not what I would consider "well-off" "
If they are buying new trucks as opposed to used machines that is a discretionary choice, and it is a deductible business expense. No small farmer or contractor "requires" a new truck unless they are running enough miles = doing enough business to easily pay for it. The market is full of good, cheaper, used machines.
"Also, with the amount of people that drive trucks for a daily driver. Every MPG counts towards thousand of gallons a day saved. Which, in the long run will bring down demand. Which will bring down the price of oil."
No. WORLD demand is expanding massively, notably in China. Vehicle use gets lots of attention, but power generation and industrial use are major consumers of oil.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/steo
"Retail prices for petroleum products are expected to increase in 2008, pushed up by the higher average crude oil prices. Both motor gasoline and diesel prices are projected to average over $3 per gallon in 2008 and 2009, with monthly average gasoline prices peaking near $3.50 per gallon this spring."
"I think that is a poor argument that is often brought up when discussing the MPG of these trucks. "
Until their poor mileage actually changes enough buyers behavior to FORCE improvement, the poor mileage arguably does not matter. How many people are buying aftermarket mileage improving tech as opposed to hotrod mods? Engines with high output sell, not little 4BT-equivalents de-tuned for thrift.
What other option is there? I will be first in line to buy these high MPG pick up. Unfortunatly, I didn't see any when I went looking for my truck. I bought the one with the best mpg offered. Also I do not believe there are many, if any aftermarket products the improve MPG. If there was, why wouldn't the manufacturers incorporate it in their design?
"Work trucks that actually get good mileage are like the gutless, cabover, stick-shift, flat-bed-with-drop-sides beasts of burden that do the job in the rest of the world. The US doesn't buy a lot of those and they for sure don't fill suburban driveways. "
You must have missed some of my post, I gave a list of items that a vehicle needed to accomplish for me, like most 1/2 ton truck owners. One is getting me to work every day. Those trucks that you mention are not suitable for this purpose. They are not a vehicle that you can comfortable drive on the highway at 75 mph. Although I'd like to see them available.
"If they are buying new trucks as opposed to used machines that is a discretionary choice, and it is a deductible business expense. No small farmer or contractor "requires" a new truck unless they are running enough miles = doing enough business to easily pay for it. The market is full of good, cheaper, used machines. "
I am not a small business owner and certainly don't claim to be an expert. what i do know is that the farmer i know feels it is the best value to buy a new vehicle and run it into the ground then replace it. I also notice most companies that own a fleet of vehicles use stripped down models. If you are running 25 trucks 100 miles a day then a few MPG quickly add up to a decent money savings
"No. WORLD demand is expanding massively, notably in China. Vehicle use gets lots of attention, but power generation and industrial use are major consumers of oil. "
You are correct on this. but by your comment are we supposed to enjoy lower than nessesary MPG? 1 - 3 mpg over the life of a truck is significant and a few extra dollars in my pocket. Are you suggesting that it is a waste of time improve MPG because china and india are expanding? Imagine if each person who drives an f150 saved a gallon of fuel a day. If you believe that gas supplies are stretched to the max, then that is some much needed breathing room.
Although I agree that power generation is a huge waste of oil. Especially when we have something as great as nuclear power plants. But don't get me started on people's irrational fear of that.....
I read an article last week in USA Today. Ford, GM, Nissan and others are going to be going to the Direct Injection and Turbo Charger route, vs Hybrids to meet the new MPG standards recently set by the Federal Government.
As one of the engineers put it, it only costs $1000 per vehicle to put High Pressure Direct Injection and Turbo technology into todays, existing gas engines. This yields a 20% improvement in mileage, and will meet the Federal Governments new standards for mileage requirements. It will also improve HP and torque. As they put it, a V6 will feel like it has the power of a V8.
The consumer will see a payback in as little as 3-4yrs unlike a Hybrid. Hybrid technology costs roughly $4000 to $5000 per vehicle and the payback isn't realized for some 5yrs or more.
The article said the Lincoln MK series cars will see this technology in the '09 model year. With others to follow suit. I don't remember the HP numbers, but it was impressive to me for an offering from Ford. There was no mention of the modular 5.4L or 6.8L engines. But, with Ford in a serious bid to regain its foothold in the automotive market, and its' current restructuring exercise. Massive efforts to completely redesign a new series of engines could be costly. It seems as though a near term, safe bet, would be to take the existing technology currently used successfully on todays diesel engines and apply it to gasoline engines.
The one drawback one of the engineers was quoted as saying was this. The American consumer has seen turbo charged, gasoline powered cars in the past. Turbo lag was a big issue with many consumers then. Even with todays modern turbo charged vehicles, while vastly improved over the last 20yrs, it may take some doing to lure consumers in to try them again.
Just passing on what I read last week.
We'll see.....
RustyFuryIII
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Well, if we would stop sending all of our manufacturing jobs to China, they wouldn't need all of that energy. We are shooting ourself in the foot with all of this "Made in China in sweatshops with lead paint" crap. Bring the jobs and the money back to the USA!!!!
Well, if we would stop sending all of our manufacturing jobs to China, they wouldn't need all of that energy. We are shooting ourself in the foot with all of this "Made in China in sweatshops with lead paint" crap. Bring the jobs and the money back to the USA!!!!
Yeah thats for sure. Also keep in mind how much energy it takes to ship everything from china to the US rather than from one US city to another.
"Bring the jobs and the money back to the USA!!!!"
When the US DESERVES them by winning them back in the market they will show up.
The way they can come back is for US labor and manufacturing to be competitive. That means a low dollar to make exports competitive, and that low dollar will FORCE change in energy use. If we want jobs, we'll have to work like the Japanese and Koreans did when they were building their economies.
Gas will need to hit about four or five bucks a gallon to force alternatives into the market in meaningful quantity. That price difference will fund the research and development that weren't funded in the days of cheap petrol.
American companies need to be smart instead of just greedy for short term gains, but to judge by how our investment sector went stupid and caused the mortgage crisis (hurting the economy severely) they aren't, by and large. Caterpillar is proof we can compete internationally, and the Japanese car plants in the US are proof that SMART companies can build good cars here. They source in the US, while US companies abandon the workers.
The laws of the marketplace are simple. Kick ass or die.
Well we were mentioning China. China is not really a good comparsion because many of their products are made by sweat shops and child labor. The US can not, and should not compete with them. I'm not sure how to get around that fact though, we may just have to deal with most goods being made in china. I am not familiar on the situation in Korea so i'll skip that one.
The only difference in the manufacturing jobs for ford and GM and toyota or honda is the UAW. I won't go into that but I believe the UAW has caused wages to get to high and they have priced themselves out of jobs. I understand the companies agreed to those wages but still...
One major difference between US auto companies and Japanese is in the engineering and management. Here in the US it was more about making a product that is good enough to make tons of money. The japanese take pride and continually improve their products, always making progress towards a better end design. How many toyota or honda vehicles have you heard about that have the same problem year after year? I can't think of one. But i remember the A4LD from ford for years. They were generally a junk transmission but were put in rangers and explorers for many years. I believe the 3.8 also had a problem for many years.
This is changing, fortunatly. The japanese entering the 1/2 ton truck market is good for all of us. Whatever brand you decide to buy will have to be much improved or it will die out from the marketplace.
I think Japans quality as off late has sufferd they have had more problems in the last couple off years then they have had in past years. The domestic automakers are putting better quality products as off late compared to the Japanese out fits. Even consumer reports has rated domestics better. You know the other day I just happend to take a 2005 150 out for a test drive. I have driven one off those new 150s before but I was impressed. That truck just showed that Ford can an did build the best half ton out there. That truck set the bar on trucks. For quality build quality. Just a great truck overall. This new truck looks even better.
ford always under rates their engines , the newer mustang bullit was rated at 390hp and a guy i know put his on a dyno with no mods done and it was around 450hp. dont let the factory numbers fool you
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