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Old 01-04-2008, 09:01 PM
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Do you worry about water in BD?

In a continuing effort to build a rapport with a guy down the road who makes and sells a LOT of BD, I purchased 15 gallons from him. While he was pumping the fuel into my truck and we were talking all things fuel related, he commented that he tries to always "get oil without any water in it."

I asked what he does to remove the water that may be in the oil and he replied that he does nothing. He claims it always just seperates out and he does use a water block filter when pumping the fuel "just to be on the safe side."

This right away caused me concern, as I am very up tight in trying to remove all water from the WVO I use when making my blend. I told him how I do a mist wash on my WVO and then a couple of heat and settle cycles in an effort to get the driest oil possible. He had indicated that he had never heard of this.

Given that he does not pay attention to possible water in the fuel, should I be concerned that his fuel could cause a problem for me due to water, or is this not a concern with BD as it is with WVO or a WVO blend? Does the BD process somehow deal with water issues without a seperate concerted effort as is needed when dealing with WVO?
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Old 01-04-2008, 11:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firemediceric
In a continuing effort to build a rapport with a guy down the road who makes and sells a LOT of BD, I purchased 15 gallons from him. While he was pumping the fuel into my truck and we were talking all things fuel related, he commented that he tries to always "get oil without any water in it."

I asked what he does to remove the water that may be in the oil and he replied that he does nothing. He claims it always just seperates out and he does use a water block filter when pumping the fuel "just to be on the safe side."

This right away caused me concern, as I am very up tight in trying to remove all water from the WVO I use when making my blend. I told him how I do a mist wash on my WVO and then a couple of heat and settle cycles in an effort to get the driest oil possible. He had indicated that he had never heard of this.



Given that he does not pay attention to possible water in the fuel, should I be concerned that his fuel could cause a problem for me due to water, or is this not a concern with BD as it is with WVO or a WVO blend? Does the BD process somehow deal with water issues without a seperate concerted effort as is needed when dealing with WVO?

Water is the least of your worries................He obviously is not removing any of the residual MeOH, Glycerol, FFA's, OR water. He is selling "raw" biodiesel. THIS IS NOT QUALITY FUEL!!!

Biodiesel is very simple to make. I make samples up in 1 liter pop bottles [ which amazes newbies], but it is nowhere close to ASTM specs........

There are only 2 viable options for removing these contaminates, waterwash, or "dry" wash like I use, anything else is unacceptable as a QUALITY fuel.

I'd tell you what I think of people selling low quality fuel, but this is a family forum........................................
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Old 01-05-2008, 06:35 AM
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Thanks for the reply.

I will have to ask more about him doing a water wash or dry wash process after the fuel has gone through transesterfication.

What he and I were discussing was water in the WVO prior to processing, but where he stated he doesn't do anything to remove water, he may be omitting the water wash process at the end.
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:25 AM
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you may want to check back with him, he might have been speaking about before processing as you say. He may not be doing anything with the WVO when he gets it aside from letting it sit for several weeks prior to processing, which is in essence doing something. Water in BioD processing can be compensated for in the chemical reaction it just takes more $ (chemicals). Hopfully he has a wash process.

How is the Dahl 100 working for you? I bought one to use, I just haven't gotten around to switching things around yet...
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Old 01-05-2008, 07:15 PM
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Now that i think about it, I'm pretty sure he does have a wash process. I have seen him take the BD, pump it into a cone bottom tank and flow a garden hose into the tank while he stirs everything up with a paint mixer on an electric drill.

I think he was saying he doesn't do anything to dry the fuel after that step except to let it settle and seperate. Is that Kosher? Should he be doing something more to dry the fuel? If so, how important is it?

Regarding the Dahl 100, I like it, I guess. I look at it as just an added layer of protection. I can't say it's really done anything for me, but it sure hasn't hurt anything either. The train horns are a lot more fun
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Old 01-05-2008, 09:19 PM
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IF he is using a water wash, the biodiesel should be "dried" to remove the water. Biodiesel is Hydroscopic and will attract moisture from the air. Settling will NOT remove all the water. Too much water will degrade the biodiesel and will cause storage problems. Excess water will also cause corrosion problems in the IP, and injectors. Sorry, not quality fuel................
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Old 01-06-2008, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabmandelux
Sorry, not quality fuel................
That's what concerns me. I would like to have a better understanding of how he is doing things, but he's not the easiest guy to talk to. Maybe everything is being done correctly, but at present he has not set my mind at ease.

I am well aware of the problems water in the fuel can cause. I also realize that suspended water may not be visible to the naked eye. That is why I make real concerted efforts to get the water out of the WVO that I blend with.

The only reason I am looking at maybe using his fuel is because I have recently secured a few new sources of WVO. Due to limited room, I now have access to more WVO than I can process in a timely fashion. This guy that makes the fuel has offered to trade BD for the WVO at 3 to 1.
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Old 01-06-2008, 02:20 PM
 
 
 
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